# you loved the original, but the sequel... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 26, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994 "2003-09-26T16:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/1 "2003-09-26T16:02:53Z")
I’ve got the sequel to Ricardo Pinto’s fascinating _The Chosen_. I waited for months for this book, eagerly snatched it up, and have been stalled at page 76 for three weeks. What books or movies did you love but you found that the sequels were either terrible or unbearable for other reasons? Another book for me: Book Two in George RR Martin’s “Song of Ice and Fire” series. I just couldn’t keep reading it. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/2 "2003-09-26T16:09:06Z")
My best example is Orson Scott Card’s _Ender’s Game_. The first book is phenomenally-good, but _Speaker for the Dead_ was vaguely disappointing, _Xenocide_ annoying, and all copies of _Children of the Mind_ should have been sent back to the printer and pulped, to be used for better books. Kind of like a four-book descent into Hell… but not in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/3 "2003-09-26T16:16:16Z")
My best example is Orson Scott Card’s _Ender’s Game_. The first book is phenomenally-good, but _Speaker for the Dead_ was vaguely disappointing, _Xenocide_ annoying, and all copies of _Children of the Mind_ should have been sent back to the printer and pulped, to be used for better books. Kind of like a four-book descent into Hell… but not in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/4 "2003-09-26T17:00:45Z")
Well, it wasn’t good enough of an example to merit two posts… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Grief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Grief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grief)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/5 "2003-09-26T18:44:36Z")
Rendezvous with Rama The first volume, was incredible. Unfortunately, the subsequent novels were quite the opposite… ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/6 "2003-09-26T18:54:10Z")
Allow me to be the first to say: **Matrix Reloaded**. I have never been so bored. ---
**Author:** ![Zanshin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e274bd/32.png) [@Zanshin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanshin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/7 "2003-09-26T19:20:46Z")
D’ah! I was hoping to be the first to post **Matrix Reloaded**! Movies: - Die Hard 3. I loved the first and second movies, but the whole running-around-solving-puzzles thing in the third movie bugged the heck out of me. - Highlander 2. What a piece of dreck. I remember being in the theater opening night, eagerly awaiting this movie (as I’d loved the first one) and walking out PISSED. - Star Wars Episodes 1 and 2 (although they’re technically prequels, not sequels). I’ll echo Triumph the Comic Insult Dog when I call them George Lucas’ table scraps. - Terminator 3. Not a bad movie per se, just didn’t even come close to measuring up to the quality of T2. Books: - Simon Green’s Deathstalker series. Loved the first and second books, but they slowly started losing quality till the end of the series. I didn’t particularly like the start of the new Deathstalker series, either. - Lynn Flewelling’s Nightrunner series. Liked the first two, but the third got too bogged down in political shenanigans to be truly entertaining. - The last couple of Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan novels. Executive Orders and The Bear and the Dragon just dragged. - Arthur C. Clarke’s 2010. \ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/8 "2003-09-26T19:43:47Z")
Very often Hollywood sequels would be rushed out, on a fraction of the cost of the original, in order to rake in a quick profit. **Son of Kong** had a dismally small budget and schedule, to the chagrin of the folks who made it and really wanted to do better. **Return of the Fly** was so underfunded that it was made in _black and white_, whereas the original was in color. For the climactic “fly with a human head” they used a pitiably bad photo super-imposition that a kid with a home movie camera could;'ve done (the real fly’s head shows through the superimposed acto’s head). Neither of the two “Mr. Tibbs” sequels to **In the Heat of the Night** came anywhere close to the original. ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/9 "2003-09-26T19:52:09Z")
The Two Jakes was an unworthy followup to Chinatown. It wasn’t bad, just dull and unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/10 "2003-09-26T19:52:27Z")
**Gremlins II: The New Batch**. Sure, I got the joke that they were taking jabs at themselves and I appreciate it at that level, but the first one was loads better. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Daniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/11 "2003-09-26T22:04:42Z")
for books, **Gods of Riverworld** , the fifth book in Philip Jose Farmer’s Riverworld series, and the only one to have Riverworld in its title. It’s obviously an afterthought, and completely wrecked much of the premise that made the first four books so strong. For movies … First Blood was incredible, First Blood Part 2: Rambo was pretty good, but **Rambo III** was horrible. It had some good one-liners, but that’s about it. I bought the trilogy set, but Rambo III’s gettin’ used as a coaster. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/12 "2003-09-26T23:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wumpus \* > \*\*The Two Jakes was an unworthy followup to Chinatown. It wasn’t bad, just dull and unnecessary. \*\* It sucked donkey wangers. Whoever let Jack Nicholson direct the film should have had his nuts hammered flat. Stupid dialog, bad editing, bad writing…a turkey for all seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/13 "2003-09-27T00:43:05Z")
_The Two Jakes_ was also my first thought. I’ll add _Jaws 2_, I think they were still attempting to make a decent movie with that one. I’ve heard 3 & 4 were entertainingly bad, IIRC 4 introduced the “This time it’s personal” schtick. For an oddball mention, _The Dark Knight Returns_ was a great piece of comic art, _Dark Knight Strikes Again_ was an embarrassing waste of ink. ---
**Author:** ![Mofo\_Rising](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mofo\_Rising](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mofo_Rising)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/14 "2003-09-27T02:20:36Z")
I liked _Speaker for the Dead_ a lot. And half of _Xenocide_. The rest I can do away with. And I absolutely love GREMLINS 2. Manic insanity. Loads better than the first’s suburban fairy tale. Of course, that’s my humble opinion, and I know most people would disagree. Which you may want to keep in mind when I tell you how much I enjoyed the movie FREEWAY. The Reese Witherspoon fractured fairy tale. Thought it was great. The sequel, however, is garbage. And yes, _Dark Knight Strikes Again_ was garbage as well. Way to embrace fascism, Frank. And yes, American culture is ruled by MTV. Of course. Do you ever turn off the TV and leave the house? ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/15 "2003-09-27T02:45:11Z")
I would nominate both the sequels to _The Witching Hour_ by Ann Rice. _Lasher_ was ok but paled compared to the original, _Taltos_ just plain sucked. The original could have stood on its own- I actually liked Rowan in the first book, but by the last I wished she’d died giving birth to that thing. On the flip side, just finished _Porno_ by Irvine Welsh- I’m a huge fan of almost all of his works (except _Filth_ which I can’t find anyone who likes that)- _Porno_ is the sequel to _Trainspotting_ - I loved the first book, but the sequel was outstanding and I enjoyed it even more. ---
**Author:** ![cmonidareya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cmonidareya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmonidareya)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/16 "2003-09-27T02:49:14Z")
One of my favorite books is “The Forge of God” by Greg Bear. I had to force myself to read the sequel “An Anvil of Stars” all the way through. Everything I enjoyed about the first book was missing from the second book. Basically all the characters did in the second book was argue, sleep for long periods and fret about what was going to happen. BO-RING! ---
**Author:** ![cmonidareya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cmonidareya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmonidareya)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/17 "2003-09-27T02:56:22Z")
One of my favorite books is “The Forge of God” by Greg Bear. I had to force myself to read the sequel “An Anvil of Stars” all the way through. Everything I enjoyed about the first book was missing from the second book. Basically all the characters did in the second book was argue, sleep for long periods and fret about what was going to happen. BO-RING! ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/18 "2003-09-27T03:37:44Z")
Three words: “Leaving Cold Sassy.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/19 "2003-09-27T04:04:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmonidareya \* > \*\* Everything I enjoyed about the first book was missing from the second book. \*\* This is actually the opposite of the problem I’ve having with _The Standing Dead_ (the sequel that inspired this thread). It’s very similar to the first book in being set in a horribly oppressive culture on a horrible world with horrible situations and horrible people. It’s a completely amazing bit of world building, mind you, just too much for me. I’d highly recommend at least the first book to non-wimp fantasy lovers. Julie ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994/20 "2003-09-27T05:07:45Z")
You know what might be good? If Thomas Harris were to write a sequel to _Red Dragon_ and _The Silence of the Lambs_. On second thought, though, he might just mess it up. Much of the scariness of Hannibal Lecter derives from how he manages to still be terribly dangerous even when he’s confined in a maximum security prison; it would be tough to write something as compelling about Lecter on the loose–it would be very hard to come up with anything that Hannibal Lecter could do that would be as frightening as the dark, unformed imagings that the reader generates from thinking of his escape in _The Silence of the Lambs_. Also, I think the essential mysteriousness and rather unfathomable motivations of Lecter are an important component of his character; exploring the history and psyche of Francis Dolarhyde in _Red Dragon_ was so effective that Harris might be tempted to do something like that to Lecter, but I just don’t think it would work with Lecter–he’s a completely different sort of character from Dolarhyde. Clarice Starling is a great character, though–it might be fun to see her in another book. But only if Harris stayed true to the character he created, of course. Yeah, all in all, it’s probably best if Harris just resists the temptation to write a sequel to _Red Dragon_ and _The Silence of the Lambs_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-loved-the-original-but-the-sequel/203994.md?page=2)