# You mean the Earth isn't flat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294 "2000-11-01T21:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/21 "2000-11-02T01:37:24Z")
Most installations of Foucault’s pendulum have something that nudges the pendulum to keep it swinging. Most? All, probably. Read the small print on the display, it probably explains that. To someone who is not convinced that the earth is a sphere, that would just be taken as evidence that everybody is just cheating on the pendulum results. I’m a third of the way through Foucault’s Pendulum, I wish I didn’t have to read it in translation. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/22 "2000-11-02T02:34:45Z")
I’m with **Friedo** - if your friend believes the world is flat and that she has reached this conclusion through “logic,” you’re not going to get very far with her using reasoned explanations. You could try asking her to show you the edge. If the world is flat like a coin, then surely it must have an edge - and you’d think if there were an edge, someone one have fallen over it by now. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/23 "2000-11-02T09:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aseymayo \* > \*\*If the world is flat like a coin, then surely it must have an edge - and you’d think if there were an edge, someone one have fallen over it by now. \*\* Of course, they have, but none of them are talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/24 "2000-11-02T10:10:05Z")
Here are some natural phenomena that are dependant on the earth being round: Tides Time zones The fact you can’t see the North Star from the southern hemisphere Or Sirius from the North Pole The coriolis effect (as seen in hurricanes) The gulf stream The fact that great circle arcs are shorter than straight lines The waves propagated by earthquakes In short, the amount of evidence that has to be discarded to maintain belief in a flat earth boggles the mind. I’d say refuse to take her seriously at all until she can attempt to explain how all these work in a flat earth. Since she can’t, ask her if it’s logical that those who have actually looked at the evidence are all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/25 "2000-11-02T15:03:39Z")
I just came back to my office after a nice walk. As I looked up into the sky, I noticed a curious thing: A jet contrail stretching from one horizon to another. The most curious aspect of this was: It was curved! Now everyobdy knows that when a jet gets high enough to leave coherent contrail, it is at a steady height of several thousand feet. The plane is traveling in a straight line, yet its trail curves. How curious. I wonder if Apollo’s chariot follows a similar pattern as it pulls the sun across the sky? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/26 "2000-11-02T15:30:40Z")
waterj2, I am afraid that would not work. Someone who believes the world is falt is not going to accept the coriolis effect or anything of the sort. _Anybody_ who understands the coriolis effect _knows_ full well the Earth is not flat. I have my doubts anyone can really believe the world is flat and I think it is probably a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/27 "2000-11-02T15:58:33Z")
Here’s something I didn’t learn until a few years ago. Most people throughout history did NOT think the Earth was flat. Christopher Columbus, back in the 1480s and 90s was not trying to convince Queen Isabella that the Earth was round. What he was trying to convince her was that the world was small enough to sail around it without running out of supplies and food during the journey. No one knew about North America and so they said it would be impossible to sail West and reach land before they died. What does this mean? It means that people in the 15th century knew more about the world than this woman does. My advice? Tell her that you hope whatever sock puppets she prays to have mercy on her soul. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/28 "2000-11-02T16:15:14Z")
Round-earth deniers are a bit of a hobby of mine. Here are some links for those who are interested: An article on [Charles K. Johnson](http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm), president of the Flat Earth Society, who says the Earth is flat, and seems 100% serious. [The Myth of the Flat Earth](http://id-www.ucsb.edu/fscf/library/RUSSELL/FlatEarth.html), a short article on the phenomenon **Enderw23** mentioned, the propagation (by the likes of Washington Irving and Bugs Bunny) of the myth that Columbus was the first person to think the Earth was round. Don’t mistakenly tear into this strawman when debating with creationists! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/29 "2000-11-02T16:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by (Tim) \* > \*\*The ancient Egyptians determined the radius of the earth to within a few thousand miles with the following method: > At noon on a particular day, it was known that the sun shone directly down to the bottom of a particular deep, straight well. This showed them that the sun was directly overhead at that location. On that same day at noon, hundreds of miles north, the length of the shadow of a tall,straight obelisk was measured. Since the height of the obelisk was known, simple geometry enabled them to determine what the angle was between the two locations, and the distance between the two locations gave them the radius of the earth. \*\* Minor Nitpick. Eratosthenes was a greek living in Egypt during the Hellenic period. After Alexander conquered everything his greek/macedonian generals split up the empire. Egypt was a seperate kingdom, but ruled by the Greek Ptolemy dynasty. This is why I get so annoyed with people who think Cleopatra was black. Leaving aside the fact that the Egyptians weren’t black, Cleopatra wasn’t evan an Eygptian, she was Greek! Anyway, although the Ancient Egyptians had a lot of rough engineering skills, they didn’t have the systematized mathematical theory that would have let them calculate this. Everything else was correct…the well was at the tropic of cancer, the sun shone straight down on noon of the summer solstice. ---
**Author:** ![Doubleclick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Doubleclick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubleclick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/30 "2000-11-02T16:33:45Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > **For example: your birth certificate says you were born on such-n-such a date (September 28th, 1967, for example). But can you _prove_ it? How do you know you weren’t actually born on September 26th, 1967? Or two weeks before??** Cut ya in half and count the rings, of course!!! (Sheesh!!! 😉 ) The easiest way to deal with a statment like that is to give them the explanation, and if they are not convinced, leave them to sit in their own ignorance…(Unless of course they keep comeing back at you…then you shoot them out into spance and let them have a look for themsleves… 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e47c2d/32.png) [@\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Tim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/31 "2000-11-02T18:56:14Z")
**Lemur866** , Minor nitpick: while I suppose my term ‘ancient Egyptians’ is misleading, the events described were, in fact, in Egypt and did, in fact, occur in ancient times. Exactly how does your non-sequitur about the nationality of Cleopatra relate to the shape of the earth? No one in this thread mentioned her until you did. Why do you use the phrase ‘Ancient Egyptians’, with the capitalization of Ancient indicating a proper name? With that capitalization my statement would have been incorrect, but I didn’t use that phrase, **you** did. That’s two strawmen you attacked during your post… ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/32 "2000-11-02T20:56:18Z")
What about the fact that you can’t send a radio signal, no matter how powerful to someplace on the other side of the world? (Without bouncing it off of a satellite) ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/33 "2000-11-02T21:40:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by c\_goat \* > \*\*What about the fact that you can’t send a radio signal, no matter how powerful to someplace on the other side of the world? (Without bouncing it off of a satellite) \*\* Oh really? so those people in Austrailia were lying to us in Quincy, IL in 1993 when they called to say they could hear WGEM 1440 AM radio? The radio kept up at full power even during the night because it coordinated the flood response. ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/34 "2000-11-02T21:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lee \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by c\_goat \* > > \*\*What about the fact that you can’t send a radio signal, no matter how powerful to someplace on the other side of the world? (Without bouncing it off of a satellite) \*\* > > Oh really? so those people in Austrailia were lying to us in Quincy, IL in 1993 when they called to say they could hear WGEM 1440 AM radio? The radio kept up at full power even during the night because it coordinated the flood response. \*\* Oh well… I guess I was wrong then. I always thought that was true. ☹ I guess it’s officially time for me to stop posting. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/35 "2000-11-02T22:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > With a decent amount of weight (say a bowling ball) you might be able to prove to her satisfaction that someone can’t change the direction of the pendulum without it being obvious that something else is going on. In addition to RM Mentock’s reply, you could magnetize the ball, and have it attracted by other magnets under the floor, or deflected by an electric field as it swings, have air currents circulating to blow the ball in the right direction, or have the ball not quite spherical, to get deflected just a little each time as it swings. A little weight inside the ball, which moves left and right as the pendulum swings to and fro, could get the little bit of deflection you need. In thinking about why someone would believe the Earth is flat, it’s not just that they’re nuts, it’s that they are very arrogant. Think about it. They “know” better than everyone else. What a nice, superior feeling it must give them. Arguments won’t sway them, because that would mean admitting they are wrong. If the Earth truly were flat, they’d be the ones saying it was round. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/36 "2000-11-02T22:17:17Z")
AM radio can bend with the curvature of the earth. FM radio goes in a straight line (in effect) so you lose the signal once you travel far enough away and curve ‘below’ the signal. Theoretically you could get an FM signal on the moon. I once listened to an AM radio station out of Boise, Idaho in Phoenix, Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/37 "2000-11-03T03:04:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff\_42 \* > **AM radio can bend with the curvature of the earth. FM radio goes in a straight line (in effect) so you lose the signal once you travel far enough away and curve ‘below’ the signal. Theoretically you could get an FM signal on the moon.** Ahhh… so we were both right. I didn’t know it was just FM that went straight. I guess I’m not an idiot after all. ---
**Author:** ![Gunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/38 "2000-11-03T04:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by c\_goat \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Jeff\_42 \* > > **AM radio can bend with the curvature of the earth. FM radio goes in a straight line (in effect) so you lose the signal once you travel far enough away and curve ‘below’ the signal. Theoretically you could get an FM signal on the moon.** > > Ahhh… so we were both right. I didn’t know it was just FM that went straight. I guess I’m not an idiot after all. \*\* In 'Nam, my dad (Green Beret radioman) would sometimes swap civilian crystals into the radio and talk to a guy in Dallas (at night, of course). Actually, he didn’t. I made that up. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, nat’l security, classified, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/39 "2000-11-04T06:02:14Z")
Does she wonder why only the Earth is flat, while everything else in the solar system is spherical? Does she think gravity merely pulls “down,” rather than toward the center of the Earth? How thick does she think the earth is? If we dig a hole to the underside, what would we find? And doesn’t she wonder why people can go around the world in absolutely any direction, and still get back home? Does she think that when someone travels around the world, that they reach a place that’s **just like** the place they left, and populated with identical people? And how does she explain the fact that it’s daylight in some parts of the world, and night in other parts, not to mention the perpetual day/night in the arctic/antarctic? And how does she explain the seasons, especially how they’re reversed in the southern hemisphere? And if the Earth is flat, are the arctic and antarctic all stretched out, like on a Mercator map? What would she consider to be a “true” map of the world? ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2000, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294/40 "2000-11-04T16:17:26Z")
Well all of you, thanks for the help. I do not know this wingnut personally (thank god, I’d go nuts) so I don’t know what her views are on what the world “actually looks like”. The easiest way I think I can give her some gentle prodding is to see if I can get her to acknowledge that the Olympics were being brodcast live (most of the time). If that is the case, it was night here and daytime there. I think she could wrap her mind around that one. Radio waves, tides, et al would be simply shrugged off since she wouldn’t know. Then again, she will probably think there was a conspiracy with the TV stations now… ugh… like many have said, someone who actually believes this crap will change their mind very easily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-mean-the-earth-isnt-flat/39294.md?page=3)