# You need another kid like you need a HOLE in your HEAD! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811 "2003-12-13T20:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E.T.Bass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@E.T.Bass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.T.Bass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/21 "2003-12-14T02:19:48Z")
You know, what apes me is that my wife and I have been trying to have ONE baby for the past two years or so, with absolutely no results and people like her with 5 kids can conceive no problem. Now she’s working on kid number 6. Jesus, she’s half way to the new Steve Martin movie. I have a problem with people being on welfare who can work, but who seem to have the money to drink and smoke dope. I’m an irresponsible pot smoking bastard too, but I use my own money. I also have a problem with anybody having more than 3 kids in this day and age due to overpopulation of the planet and the ditribution of wealth. 25 years from now, you will see these kids working 60 hours a week in a dead end job to survive. I mean, one might break out and get a scholarship to college, but with that family life, the chances are way against that. Maybe you can take a collection to get her a hysterectomy. I’ll throw in a dollar. ET ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/22 "2003-12-14T03:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Sunny Day > Shine Ray > Wanda > Iris > Maya > The last two are fine, IMO, so maybe she’s wised up a bit. But the first three fucking KILL me. Wanda? What little girl needs to grow up with THAT? Hey! My beloved mother’s name is Wanda. (Not kidding!) Yeah, ok she was born in 1932 (She had me when she was 40.) and the name was more common in those days. She did get teased by kids at school about her name, but from what I’ve seen kids will MAKE SOMETHING UP about your name to tease you if that’s what they want to do. My mother was admired by my friends during my school years, none of them ever thought to sneer at her name after getting to know her. Back on track, do think about CPS for those poor kids. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/23 "2003-12-14T04:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anniee \* > **Do people still think CPS is this benevolent nanny who holds out a helping hand and suggests “classes”?** Benevolent nanny, no. Interventionist in cases where the situation requires intermediary assistance but does not warrant removal of the children, yes. I’m sorry if your experiences with CPS has been adversarial, but my experiences with them (admittedly not as a parent) have not shown them to be the jackbooted, overreactive thugs that they often seem to be in extreme situations. This is not yet an extreme situation, but this is a situation with children who need help and a parent who doesn’t know what the hell she’s doing. If someone – with the weight of law behind them – can step in and head these problems off at the pass **now** perhaps we can avoid these kids ending up split apart, in abysmal foster care situations or worse. These are children who are in need of protection, that’s exactly what child protective services are for. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/24 "2003-12-14T04:13:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E.T. Bass \* > \*\*You know, what apes me is that my wife and I have been trying to have ONE baby for the past two years or so, with absolutely no results and people like her with 5 kids can conceive no problem. Now she’s working on kid number 6. Jesus, she’s half way to the new Steve Martin movie. > > I have a problem with people being on welfare who can work, but who seem to have the money to drink and smoke dope. I’m an irresponsible pot smoking bastard too, but I use my own money. > ET \*\* Might want to check this out [Sperm Burn Out, Less Potent When Men – or Women – Smoke Marijuana](http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/75/89678.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/25 "2003-12-14T05:24:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Might want to check this out > > [Sperm Burn Out, Less Potent When Men – or Women – Smoke Marijuana](http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/75/89678.htm) \*\* Now this is a good argument for decriminalizing pot 😃 not that I use the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/26 "2003-12-14T07:14:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anniee \* > \*\*It’s quite obvious she shouldn’t have more children. But propagating the ridiculous myth of “overpopulation” might not be the best way to go. It isn’t true, first of all. > > There are a lot of resources debunking that stuff. Please look into them. > > [http://home.swbell.net/birons/myths.html](http://home.swbell.net/birons/myths.html) \*\* I clicked on these links and they seem to either be dead, or linked to religious fundamentalist/politically conservative organisations. One of them defined “overpopulation” as a situation where _no_ humans can obtain enough food and water to live. Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/27 "2003-12-14T08:22:32Z")
**Anniee** , sweetie, if you don’t think there are too many human beings on the planet, then I don’t think you and I live on the same planet. Overpopulation is the BIGGEST problem facing our planet today, and all the other environmental problems flow from it, IMO. You’re not going to dissuade me from that with your citation of a source. Sorry. Take that jive elsewhere. **Superstar** : Mom doesn’t act like she’s happy with her life. She complains a LOT, but mostly it’s about how she can’t find a decent man. She’s guy crazy, honestly. I tell her, she’s not likely to find a man who wants to take on 5 kids, but she says, “the RIGHT man will!” and keeps looking. Also, I’m sorry, but I DON’T buy this whole idea that she’s trapped, poor her. Fucking use birth control. They give away condoms like they’re going out of style (and with her, they are out of style), and Planned Parenthood would give her the birth control of her choice for free. She does not want to use it. She does not “believe” it in, so when she complains that she has no car, or can’t go to the bar with us, I want to say, “Yeah, but you have your lovely children, don’t you? Go home and read them a book, ya moron!” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by big\_yellow\_kingswood > The older kids - are they going to school? What’s their attendance like? How’s their behaviour at school? Their grades? I don’t have much of this information; I have been avoiding this woman, remember? I know the 8 and 5 year old (he may be 6 now) go to school now, though I don’t think they did before. I have no idea what their attendance is like, or their behavior. > [@](#): > > The five year old doesn’t talk much - is there some sort of developmental delay? When he does talk would you say it’s with a normal 5yo’s vocabulary? When he does talk, what does he talk about? I believe Shine is delayed but can’t make an official diagnosis, of course. He only speaks when spoken to and will answer a direct question, but will not strike up a conversation. Usually when I hang out with him, it involves him crawling into my lap, putting his arms around me, and holding me for long periods of time. Iris (3) will also do this, for HOURS and HOURS. However, Sunny (8), Wanda (4), and Maya (1) will usually not let just anyone touch them. Maya takes to certain people, and she and Sunny are very close. In fact, Sunny once told me that he’s sick of caring for babies. I feel so sorry for him. > [@](#): > > You say she’s asking people to take her children, and your tone suggests that she’s doing this completely seriously (I’m sure you appreciate that it’s a hard thing to believe, although I have seen worse). Who does she ask? People she knows and trusts who can take proper care of the kids, her stoner babysitters or complete randoms? As far as I know, she’s only asked me to take Shine and a close friend of mine to take Maya (but who knows? maybe she’s shilling them on the street corner). My friend just turned 21, and while she is an amazing, enlightened, wonderful person, she’s a college student and couldn’t have a baby right now. I am in a better position to have a kid; I’m 32, I teach middle school, and I make a decent way for myself. I’m a good choice for a mommy and I love Shine to pieces. However, if I wanted a kid, I’d bloody well have one of my own. > [@](#): > > These babysitters, what do you know about them? Do they smoke pot heavily in front of the kids? Exposing children to drug use is abuse in itself. They seem like lameass, stoned hippes to me, but I have no idea what they do in front of the kids, as I’ve never been there for such a scenario. I was appalled by her choice of caregivers and told her so, but she reassured me they were cool. Right. Because “cool” is my #1 criterion for a babysitter. > [@](#): > > Is there any violence in any of her relationships? I can be pretty sure there isn’t. She wouldn’t put up with that. I haven’t seen her ever hit her kids, either. They are pretty well-behaved, considering. > [@](#): > > Have you every had any suspicions of any sexual abuse of the children? Not at all. I don’t know if Mom has sex in front of the kids-- I mean seriously, how WOULD I know that? The kids have never behaved in a sexualized manner that I’ve ever seen, but remember, only 2 of them ever really talk. > [@](#): > > Could you elaborate on the ‘need for attention’ and ‘emotional problems’? Emotional abuse is just as real and damaging as physical abuse but a lot harder to spot. Sunny is very needy for attention. He will follow my friends and me around, trying to get us to play with him, and wants to play rough (tackling, throwing things at people, etc.) but will pretend to be injured and suddenly burst into tears for no reason, hide his face, and become hostile. If you walk away from this behavior, he’ll follow you again. It’s weird. Shine and Iris are physically clingy and affectionate. Wanda rarely talks or smiles, as does Maya. A one year old who never smiles is downright odd to me. Maya had impetigo on her bottom this summer, which led to an emergency room visit. However, Mom didn’t cover it and was letting the kid run all over the place with this infection on her ass. The kids are never really clean and are always hungry. Mom has little time to spend one on one with them, and I’m sure she never reads to them or anything. Sunny is the only one who is at all articulate; Iris loves to talk, but it’s very hard to understand her. She has a speech impediment, a lisp that makes her words difficult to decipher. Wanda is sharp as a tack and cunning as hell, but very selective about who she’ll talk to. Shine is shy and withdrawn; I have made it a point to be attentive to him, and he always gives me a big smile. Once, we were at a festival and I was buying him a balloon animal. The balloon guy referred to me as Shine’s mom; he looked up at me, shrugged, and did not correct the man. I am not sure foster care is the answer here, either. While Mom is a total loser, the kids care about each other and look out for each other. As I said before, Sunny takes care of Maya and is very attached to her. I’d hate to see them split up, another reason why I’m reluctant to take Shine. He’d be lonely. Overall, they remind me of the children of Okies who were moving west during the Depression. Sad, but it could be far worse. No, what makes me mad is the thought that she could be up to 10 or 12 by the time she’s 40. Truly horrifying, and no one can stop her. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/28 "2003-12-14T11:37:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > \*\* > Sunny is very needy for attention. He will follow my friends and me around, trying to get us to play with him, and wants to play rough (tackling, throwing things at people, etc.) but will pretend to be injured and suddenly burst into tears for no reason, hide his face, and become hostile. If you walk away from this behavior, he’ll follow you again. It’s weird. Shine and Iris are physically clingy and affectionate. Wanda rarely talks or smiles, as does Maya. A one year old who never smiles is downright odd to me. > > Maya had impetigo on her bottom this summer, which led to an emergency room visit. However, Mom didn’t cover it and was letting the kid run all over the place with this infection on her ass. _The kids are never really clean and are always hungry._ > > Mom has little time to spend one on one with them, and I’m sure she never reads to them or anything. Sunny is the only one who is at all articulate; Iris loves to talk, but it’s very hard to understand her. She has a speech impediment, a lisp that makes her words difficult to decipher. Wanda is sharp as a tack and cunning as hell, but very selective about who she’ll talk to. Shine is shy and withdrawn; I have made it a point to be attentive to him, and he always gives me a big smile. Once, we were at a festival and I was buying him a balloon animal. The balloon guy referred to me as Shine’s mom; he looked up at me, shrugged, and did not correct the man. > > \*\* (emphasis mine) This part just broke my heart. I think the part about cleanliness and hunger is enough to get the children taken away. I think foster care would try to keep the children together, but anything is better than this neglect. Shine wants you to hold him all the time because he’s not getting that from his “mother,” and probably has to store that up until he sees you again. Forget talking sense to this woman. She’s causing harm to her children, and I think you need to act in their best interests. ---
**Author:** ![big\_yellow\_kingswood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@big\_yellow\_kingswood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/big_yellow_kingswood)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/29 "2003-12-14T11:37:57Z")
What you’re describing is a pretty clear-cut case of neglect, which is legally synonymous with child abuse (at least where I am). If the kids are never clean/always hungry they are not having their basic needs met. This goes double if one of them had a medical problem which was not being addressed. Also, their ‘needy’/‘don’t touch me’/never smile behaviour to me would strongly suggest the lack of proper emotional care, which constitutes pretty bad emotional abuse. If they’re like this now, imagine in 15-20 years time. What sort of relationships do you think they’ll get into? It’s pretty scary. I’d suggest that you call you local CPU and inform them that there are six children (including 1 unborn) living in a situation of neglect. Their basic food, hygene and medical needs are not being met adequately. They are often placed in potentially unsafe environments (I don’t like the sound of those babysitters) including sometimes being left to care for each other (reading into the 8 year old’s ‘caring for babies’ comment). The children’s behaviour is indicative of emotional neglect. They present emotionally as either highly dependent on others or extremely detached. The mother does not provide adequate attention to the children. I’m hearing a bit of reluctance to make a report to Child Protection, one reason being that you don’t want to split them up over different foster homes. In my experience fostering is usually the very last option (unless the kid is at risk of SERIOUS harm) so most likely they’ll be able to stay with her. There are very few people who are willing to foster neglected kids (if only 'cause so many of the kids are ratbags - I’m not being nasty, it’s just how it is through no fault of their own). CP’ll probably have a talk with mum about her lifestyle and offer to put some services at her disposal such as parenting skills help, respite, financial assistance, D&A counselling, and so on. They should also inform her that neglect of children is a criminal act, and if she doesn’t shape up then not only may she lose the kids, but she could be up in court on abuse/neglect charges. Most reporting lines allow you to be annonymous so you can give tham a call and run over the situation to see what they’ll say. I know that a lot of Child Potection services get a bad rap in the press quite often, but generally they do a good job in a tough situation and they do exist for the benefit of the children in question. Good luck ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/30 "2003-12-14T22:25:18Z")
I am going to look into hotlining her ASAP. I work in a school, so I will be able to get this info pretty easily, and it’s anonymous, so she won’t be trying to kick my ass or anything. She just moved, so I’m not sure where she lives now, but could find out. I am really worried that she’s smoking pot while pregnant. My friend’s mother is a pediatric nurse at the hospital. I gave her this woman’s name, and she said she can authorize a marijuana test on her for suspicion of drug abuse, in which case CPS is automatically called. Thanks for all the advice. I was concerned when I posted this that people were going to flame me for being so judgemental. I’m glad that I’m actually _under_reacting and should feel justified in doing more, so I’m going to do it. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/31 "2003-12-14T23:29:22Z")
I don’t think you can ever underreact when a child’s welfare is at stake. You trust your gut, and let us know how it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811/32 "2003-12-15T00:41:36Z")
How very sad. Please do contact CPS. Maybe they can do nothing but if they don’t know about it they’ll _definitely_ do nothing. I would think offering up one’s children to various random people in order to “get them off her hands” is enough to get noticed down at the social service agency, if not the state of half-neglect the kids seem to be in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-another-kid-like-you-need-a-hole-in-your-head/218811.md?page=1)