# You need time off for surgery? You're fired! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749 "2009-04-11T16:29:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/201 "2009-05-03T19:09:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > To make myself clearer; to heap well-deserved scorn on **Fear Itself** and **Guinistasia** , and to deter others from similar shenanigans. > > Why should I? Numerous people in this thread have exhibited a strange lack of knowledge of the English language in interpreting “probably” and “pretty good chance.” Probably\* they do know the definition but are ignoring it in their minds for rhetorical purposes. > > \*See my note about “probably” above. Just like you, we read between the lines. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/202 "2009-05-03T19:13:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because he seems to prefer semantic nitpicking to defending his point, one supposes. Actually, I prefer to defend the point I actually made. As opposed to the point that you wish I had made. > [@](#): > > And yes, we GET what you’re saying, **brazil**. It’s just that, we don’t give a shit. If you really didn’t give a shit, you would concede that I was reasonable and correct in stating that for me, “X is probably so” doesn’t mean the same thing as “X must be so.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/203 "2009-05-03T20:05:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > To make myself clearer; to heap well-deserved scorn on **Fear Itself** and **Guinistasia** , and to deter others from similar shenanigans. Is this what passes for scorn in your little world? By SDMB standards, it barely rises to the level of petulant whimpering. Three strikes, you’re out ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/204 "2009-05-03T20:10:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is this what passes for scorn in your little world? Pretty much, except that my world is reality which is rather large. Your world is a fantasy land where “probably” means the same thing as “must be” – when it suits your purposes. > [@](#): > > By SDMB standards, it barely rises to the level of petulant whimpering. :shrug: Then I suppose you have no objection if I continue to inform people that when I use the word “probably,” I mean the normal English meaning and not the **Fear Itself / Guinistasia** definition. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/205 "2009-05-03T20:23:31Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Then I suppose you have no objection if I continue to inform people that when I use the word “probably,” I mean the normal English meaning and not the **Fear Itself / Guinistasia** definition. Knock yourself out. But the first time you forget, I will conclude that you lack the discipline to give that dead equine the attention it requires to prove your point. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/206 "2009-05-03T20:30:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Knock yourself out. But the first time you forget, I will conclude that you lack the discipline Conclude whatever you like. Anyone who thinks that “probably” means the same thing as “must be” (for purposes of message board discussions) is someone for whom I have no respect whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/207 "2009-05-03T21:27:07Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > That’s interesting. It reminds me of the story of a man who was quite credulous and trusting. He was an honest person and assumed other people were basically the same. Eventually, he took a position where his job was to help people who were the victims of various wrongs. Since he was a trusting man, he normally accepted the stories’ of those who came to him with grievances. But his job also involved follow up, so he had an opportunity to see the other side of the story, including the evidence supporting that other side. He eventually learned to be cautious and skeptical of peoples’ claims. He learned that most people (and corporations) will spin, exaggerate, or even lie when they tell their side of a dispute. > > Just sayin’. Duly zinged back; touché! Let me observe that, like everyone else in this thread, you are arguing out your ass, with no more data regarding Mrs. Camilleri’s actual specific case than anyone else. Except that you, who appear to have had some job in which you investigate unemployment fraud (if you, unlike your opinion of Mrs. Camilleri, are to be believed), are generalizing from your own experience to say that **anybody** who claims improper dismissal is ipso facto in the wrong. Or something close enough to that as to not warrant tryint to ferret out the distinction. I for one have never disagreed that there’s a **possibility** she might have been terminated for cause, rather than to avoid a hefty insurance claim. Unlike you, I don’t give it a large amount of probability. **Because such evidence as we have is flat out in the opposite direction.** And that was the point to my post – you are hammering into the ground the fact that **in your fucking experience** , people are often crooked in their claims. You know what? You’re right – assuming you are actually telling the truth. (And remember, an important part of your case is that people often llie and slant the truth – so give me one good reason we should believe you and not her.) But **not every case is the majority case** – even assuming your anecdotal evidence is valid. Even if 80% of claims are fraudulent, that leaves 20% that are not. And for reasons known bes6t to you, you persist in painting this woman as an obvious crook, and acting out the picture of outraged innocence that anyone might think you are anything but an objective analyst interested in nothing but the facts. Now, as to how much weight to give your opinion: In Great Debates, there have been numerous threads regarding ACC (AKA global warming). Tou have taken a solid position of “not proven, inadequate evidence, it’s all a bunch of BS advanced by some enviro-wackies for their own ends.” You’ve had more than adequate opportunity to blow **jshore** and his colleagues out of the water by advancing solid evidence supporting your position. Instead, what you have done is a mess of denial, bloviation, and nitpickery that has probably convinced not a few who were on the fence that your side has nothing to show for it except hot air (not, of course, anthropogenetically created climate-changing hot air) Your evaluation of evidence is highly selective, ignoring that great mass of data that goes against your preferred conclusion. and focusing one what little does support your view. That indicates to me that your perspective on this situation as well might well be skewed, and skewed in favor of a pre-judged conclusoon. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/208 "2009-05-03T21:45:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > with no more data regarding Mrs. Camilleri’s actual specific case than anyone else. Correct. > [@](#): > > Except that you, who appear to have had some job in which you investigate unemployment fraud (if you, unlike your opinion of Mrs. Camilleri, are to be believed), are generalizing from your own experience to say that **anybody** who claims improper dismissal is ipso facto in the wrong. Or something close enough to that as to not warrant tryint to ferret out the distinction. Please either show me where I said this (with a QUOTE) or admit that I said no such thing and apologize. Your choice. > [@](#): > > In Great Debates, there have been numerous threads regarding ACC (AKA global warming). Tou have taken a solid position of “not proven, inadequate evidence, it’s all a bunch of BS advanced by some enviro-wackies for their own ends.” You’ve had more than adequate opportunity to blow **jshore** and his colleagues out of the water by advancing solid evidence supporting your position. Instead, what you have done is a mess of denial, bloviation, and nitpickery Please show me 2 examples of my “denial, bloviation and nitpickery” in a global warming thread. Please QUOTE me. Thank you. > [@](#): > > Your evaluation of evidence is highly selective, ignoring that great mass of data that goes against your preferred conclusion. and focusing one what little does support your view. Two examples, please. Please QUOTE me. Thank you. > [@](#): > > That indicates to me that your perspective on this situation as well might well be skewed, and skewed in favor of a pre-judged conclusoon. Actually, I suspect you are the one with the skewed perspective. But I will withhold judgment until you have an opportunity to back up your claims. Based on past experience with other posters, I have a feeling that you will be unable to do so and will instead advance some lame excuse, but god forbid I should “stereotype” you. So go ahead and back up your claims. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/209 "2009-05-03T23:34:23Z")
Does anyone even know (or CARE) what his point is? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/210 "2009-05-03T23:49:18Z")
People, STFU about global warming. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/211 "2009-05-03T23:51:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Does anyone even know (or CARE) what his point is? Assuming you are referring to me, I would certainly guess that you probably\* don’t know or care what my point is. Based on your earlier post, I would guess that you prefer to argue against the point you wish I had made, rather than the point I actually made. \*same disclaimer as before about the word “probably.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/212 "2009-05-04T01:08:43Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Conclude whatever you like. Anyone who thinks that “probably” means the same thing as “must be” (for purposes of message board discussions) is someone for whom I have no respect whatsoever. The total mass of the anguish caused by the loss of your respect would rattle around in an ant’s ass like a pea in a boxcar. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/213 "2009-05-04T01:38:54Z")
Amazing how a lot of threads that **brazil84** participates in seem to eventually revolve around him. Folks, he’s a troll. A self-admitted troll. He says that he enjoys arguing unpopular sides to a debate. Not that he BELIEVES those sides. People, don’t wast your time. \*Please note that **brazil84** no longer interacts with me due to his previous ignorance about a gigantic country. Called Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/214 "2009-05-04T01:49:24Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Folks, he’s a troll. A self-admitted troll. He says that he enjoys arguing unpopular sides to a debate. Not that he BELIEVES those sides. Sorry, forgot to mention it’s post #101 in this thread. See, I have to show where he said it or admit he said no such thing and apologize. My choice. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/215 "2009-05-04T01:53:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The total mass of the anguish caused by the loss of your respect would rattle around in an ant’s ass like a pea in a boxcar. Yawn. I suppose this falls under the category of “petulant whimpering” you mentioned earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/216 "2009-05-04T01:59:59Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yawn. I suppose this falls under the category of “petulant whimpering” you mentioned earlier. You are not even trying now. I tire of toying with you. Aroint thee, rump-fed ronyon! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/217 "2009-05-04T04:21:10Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Amazing how a lot of threads that **brazil84** participates in seem to eventually revolve around him. > > Folks, he’s a troll. A self-admitted troll. He says that he enjoys arguing unpopular sides to a debate. Not that he BELIEVES those sides. > > People, don’t wast your time. > > \*Please note that **brazil84** no longer interacts with me due to his previous ignorance about a gigantic country. Called Brazil. Exactly. He’s probably living in the same house as **Curlcoat** and they’re laughing to each other nightly over trolling this board. They both do the same things, share the same tactics, post endlessly to one, specific topic destined to have the last word, seemingly…post nothing but wrong info and misguided “facts”, and continually–even in the face of everyone calling them wrong–insist they are right. They both never go away either, once they get their claws into a topic, and it becomes, basically, a topic in which everyone argues with them alone. This has happened in about 5 pit threads each, including one where they were together and arguing against everyone else. Stop feeding the trolls. : p ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/218 "2009-05-04T05:17:08Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > \*Please note that **brazil84** no longer interacts with me due to his previous ignorance about a gigantic country. Called Brazil. Was that the thread about Brazil being a Hispanic country…even though it was colonized by the Portuguese…which is the language they speak, and the basis of their culture? I didn’t know that was him. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/219 "2009-05-04T06:30:09Z")
Hrm, well put me in the “troll” category, because I see a guy sticking to his guns against a bunch of retards who can’t make an argument, and instead have to resort to calling people trolls and claiming victory. Hint to the dumbasses: Saying LOLZ YER DUMB GTFO TROLL doesn’t actually prove anything, except that you are pretty much intellectually worthless. Of course, that hasn’t stopped you yet. Don’t you have a rally to make immigrants speak english or a Ron Paul convention to go to? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749/220 "2009-05-04T07:54:48Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Hrm, well put me in the “troll” category, because I see a guy sticking to his guns What guns? If he is really, he should just had said his piece once and wait for all the evidence, of course that does not take away the reality that that is just supporting inactivism and missing spectacularly the point of the pit, like you are doing too. \*\*Bicker \*\*already pointed out why his guns are not quite shooting straight. He keeps repeating that it is “just her claims”, when the context is showing that it is also the claim of the reporter and the son. If he is just complaining that we should wait, he should not continue to seed doubts on items that he has no evidence for. And now another item has been added, the company claimed that they were not going to give her unemployment but then they fail to document their reasons when they needed to, the fact that she is getting unemployment now is showing me who is being more trustworthy so far. Once again, I’m not complaining much about her losing her job as there is a chance that she deserved it. But the timing was bad, it is a fact that many lawyers recommend companies to wait a few months before dismissing an employee that deserves it when a medical condition appears suddenly. The main reason why I’m here is to point out that employers may be justified on dismissing a person, but many companies do attempt to abuse their power when the former employee then requests their legal unemployment and heath care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-need-time-off-for-surgery-youre-fired/492749.md?page=12)