# You own a self-driving Tesla. Would you send it out for taxi duty? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235 "2016-10-21T12:48:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/1 "2016-10-21T12:48:32Z")
Elon Musk mentions the following in [his master plan, part deux:](https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux) > [@Elon Musk](#): > > When true self-driving is approved by regulators, it will mean that you will be able to summon your Tesla from pretty much anywhere. Once it picks you up, you will be able to sleep, read or do anything else enroute to your destination. > > You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you’re at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not. The second paragraph is of interest here. Suppose you owned a self-driving Tesla, and you trust the self-driving systems enough to peacefully nap while it moves you to your destination. Would you be willing to let your car go out and earn money for you? How would you feel about the prospect of complete strangers using your car without any supervision whatsoever? Would you be OK with the random stains, smells, and scratches that would inevitably accumulate on your personal vehicle? Or would you accept all that in return for being able to own/drive a Tesla at (possibly) a considerably reduced price? ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/2 "2016-10-21T13:38:57Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Elon Musk mentions the following in [his master plan, part deux:](https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux) > > The second paragraph is of interest here. Suppose you owned a self-driving Tesla, and you trust the self-driving systems enough to peacefully nap while it moves you to your destination. Would you be willing to let your car go out and earn money for you? How would you feel about the prospect of complete strangers using your car without any supervision whatsoever? Would you be OK with the random stains, smells, and scratches that would inevitably accumulate on your personal vehicle? Or would you accept all that in return for being able to own/drive a Tesla at (possibly) a considerably reduced price? Probably not, but i think if self driving technology ever gets to that level of automation, which will take a good bit of time still, taxi services will be deploying it in fleets, installed in shells much more suitable to public use and abuse than a tesla. Nobody will be able to just buy a car and set it out to make money, because if it’s ever that easy to make money, people with more money will beat everyone else to it. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/3 "2016-10-21T14:18:02Z")
Nope. people in general are more likely to abuse and/or neglect things which don’t belong to them. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/4 "2016-10-21T14:25:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Nope. people in general are more likely to abuse and/or neglect things which don’t belong to them. Well, that’s why you don’t lend it out free of charge. But what if it’s making enough money for you to partially/completely offset your loan payments? Would that change your decision? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/5 "2016-10-21T16:37:48Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Well, that’s why you don’t lend it out free of charge. But what if it’s making enough money for you to partially/completely offset your loan payments? Would that change your decision? no. Hotels don’t let people stay for free, after all, yet there are plenty of stories of people trashing rooms, stealing stuff, or just leaving them a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/6 "2016-10-21T21:09:19Z")
No, I wouldn’t. For one, I simply wouldn’t want strangers using my property. Secondly I’d have to keep it tidy and devoid of personal items. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/7 "2016-10-21T21:13:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Well, that’s why you don’t lend it out free of charge. But what if it’s making enough money for you to partially/completely offset your loan payments? Would that change your decision? I’d rather pay for my own car with my own money. While I can see the appeal of being an Uber driver, I would never be interested in letting random Uber uses ride around in my personal car while I’m not there. If you are buying one as a business venture, then I’d evaluate it like any other business asset. My personal car? Never. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/8 "2016-10-21T21:19:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Elon Musk mentions the following in [his master plan, part deux:](https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux) > > The second paragraph is of interest here. Suppose you owned a self-driving Tesla, and you trust the self-driving systems enough to peacefully nap while it moves you to your destination. Would you be willing to let your car go out and earn money for you? How would you feel about the prospect of complete strangers using your car without any supervision whatsoever? Would you be OK with the random stains, smells, and scratches that would inevitably accumulate on your personal vehicle? Or would you accept all that in return for being able to own/drive a Tesla at (possibly) a considerably reduced price? You missed the rather fascist flipside of Musk’s policy on DIY ride-share-bux: According to the Tesla TOS, if you make money with ridesharing, [you are allowed only to do it in Tesla’s network, and not as part of Uber or Lyft.](http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/10/dont-plan-on-using-an-autonomous-tesla-to-earn-money-with-uber-or-lyft/) [Quote=Tesla website description of self-driving] Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, **but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.** [/quote] This doesn’t seem enforceable, but seems dickish anyway. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/9 "2016-10-21T22:57:34Z")
This is going to depend on exactly how the “my car, but XXXX’s instructions and YYYY’s software” come out as liable when things go “Crunch!”. My fault for allowing someone else to use my property? XXXX’s (Uber, Lyft, et al) instructions (I take it they show the “operator” a map with "turn R at next Intersection, etc.) YYYY’s software - who programmed the car\* If I was Tesla, I’d want absolute control of the car at all times - I do not want Uber telling my car - it makes the situation messy - did the car misinterpret the instruction, or was the instruction wrong from the start\*\*? - - with the emergence of companies offering “off the shelf” hardware and software “Autonomous Car” packages, who is the party responsible for the car’s actions - the name on the trunk “Chevy”, “Lincoln”, et. al. or the company who sold the package and certified the car as being a good install? \*\* - there are going to be damned few people who can understand the interface of Uber’s “as sent” and Tesla’s “as received” bit stream. I don’t fault Musk for not wanting a fourth party to an already messy situation. 1. Tesla car 2. Owner of said car 3. Who ever gets in the empty car in LA and says JFK airport - and step on it. Is this complex enough or do you really want to add in Uber? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/10 "2016-10-21T23:12:02Z")
I would think a good number of people would do it, seeing as there are already carsharing services that involve both corporate vehicles (ZipCar and Enterprise) and private vehicles (Turo, Getaround). As a car sharer, I can attest to the cars being surprisingly clean and undamaged for the most part. If someone leaves a mess, when the next person reports it there are fines and possible termination of membership so it doesn’t happen often. More often just some crumbs or a straw wrapper or receipts on the floor. These are big city cars so I’m not sure how expectant one should be to find them scuff and small ding free after a year or more of use. Would I do it myself as a Tesla owner? No. But I also wouldn’t do the car sharing or ride sharing that’s currently available, either. I just don’t trust people enough not to puke or spill food in my car. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/11 "2016-10-22T02:34:17Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Would you be OK with the random stains, smells, and scratches that would inevitably accumulate on your personal vehicle? Or would you accept all that in return for being able to own/drive a Tesla at (possibly) a considerably reduced price? Hell, no. I’ve known a few taxi drivers over the years. The car wouldn’t come back with just “random stains, smells, and scratches”, you’d get used condoms, puke, piss, logs of shit, and any other conceivable bodily emission on at least an occasional basis. You think the _renter_ is going to clean up that muck? I don’t think so… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/12 "2016-10-23T04:59:25Z")
To quote another Doper, _“Unknowable Boojum”._ I laugh till I cry every time I think of that. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/13 "2016-10-24T17:26:46Z")
Obviously, it depends on the specifics, but I’d be _more_ than happy to have my capital investment in a car be a profit-generating one, rather than just an expense. The reason I’m not renting out my car right now is that the transactional costs are too high to make it worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/14 "2016-10-24T17:53:22Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Obviously, it depends on the specifics, but I’d be _more_ than happy to have my capital investment in a car be a profit-generating one, rather than just an expense. > > The reason I’m not renting out my car right now is that the transactional costs are too high to make it worth it. My own feeling about my car is that it’s a very personal space. I was particular about the make/model/features I wanted, and I am as uncomfortable about letting strangers use it unsupervised as I would be able letting strangers sleep in my house (see [Airbnb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb)) - and that’s not even considering the normal wear and tear that will happen (coffee spatter, cookie crumbs, scratched leather, etc.) or the strife that would be caused by an outlier disaster (e.g. someone barfs all over the interior). How do you _feel_ about the prospect of a steady stream of strangers using your personal vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/15 "2016-10-24T19:13:22Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > My own feeling about my car is that it’s a very personal space. I was particular about the make/model/features I wanted, and I am as uncomfortable about letting strangers use it unsupervised as I would be able letting strangers sleep in my house (see [Airbnb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb)) - and that’s not even considering the normal wear and tear that will happen (coffee spatter, cookie crumbs, scratched leather, etc.) or the strife that would be caused by an outlier disaster (e.g. someone barfs all over the interior). > > How do you _feel_ about the prospect of a steady stream of strangers using your personal vehicle? I have no problem with it. I understand that not everyone thinks like me, and I think that it has to do with your emotional connection to cars in general, which I don’t have (I’d argue that I have the opposite connection, actually). For lots of people, cars mean freedom and adventure. For me, they’re metal boxes that I sometimes have to sit in for a while and go be angry with a bunch of other people who are in their own boxes. I own a car because it’s the most economical way for me to get where I’m going most of the time, but I’d be more than happy to just hire automated taxis when I need them and not own one at all. I live about a mile from where I work, and I love it when I ride my bike or walk and don’t get in a car at all. For me, once self-driving cars are a reality, the choice will be entirely one of convenience and finance. Does it make more sense to have a car that other people use, or to use a car that someone else owns. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/16 "2016-10-24T21:14:46Z")
I’d be happy to, although depending on how the numbers work out, I’d rather not own a car at all. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/17 "2016-10-24T21:29:14Z")
I would no more have a stranger use my car than I would my house. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/18 "2016-10-24T22:26:21Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > This doesn’t seem enforceable, but seems dickish anyway. Why do you consider it unenforcable? Self-driving is essentially a software product. Software licenses come with all sorts of limitations, often far more narrow than this one, and are generally enforcable. “Non-commercial” licenses in particular are very common. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/19 "2016-10-25T04:12:46Z")
Earn money for me? Sounds like a whole new meaning for Pimping My Ride. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235/20 "2016-10-25T05:30:05Z")
Hell no, I don’t trust other people to take care of my property with the same care I would. There are also a lot of things they can do that may damage the car that aren’t necessarily apparent. Hey its not my car I’ll roll the windows up and down a thousand times, adjust the seat repeatedly, fuck with all the little settings that I like, or maybe some Seinfeld scenario but instead of just B.O. maybe they will just cut the cheese for three hours in the driver’s seat and funk it up. I love to drive so I wouldn’t have much need for a self-driving car anyway and I wouldn’t really ever completely trust it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-own-a-self-driving-tesla-would-you-send-it-out-for-taxi-duty/769235.md?page=2)