# You’re wrong about your outdoor cat **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766 "2019-10-14T22:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/21 "2019-10-15T00:43:16Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Ok cats kill birds, I accept that, my next question is does it matter, is the world going to end or something? The decline in bird populations is part of a much, much wider decline in populations of both [larger animals](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/30/humanity-wiped-out-animals-since-1970-major-report-finds) and [insects](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature). As mentioned in both of those articles, we may be in the early stages of a mass extinction event. As species decline (or disappear entirely), the ecosystem is damaged, and that makes it more difficult for remaining creatures (including homo sapiens) to survive. On a micro scale, it may not seem to matter much if there are fewer birds than there used to be. But, on a macro scale, anything that we do, by choice, that further harms the populations of wild creatures is a foolish choice. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/22 "2019-10-15T00:44:13Z")
Putting a bell on the cat does nothing to protect birds, but putting a brightly colored scrunchy on the cat in lieu of a regular collar absolutely does. The birds will see the bright colors moving around and react appropriately, whereas a bell means absolutely nothing to them. A scrunchy on the cat is pretty safe even if it gets caught on something cuz the cat can then wiggle out of it. Hit the dollar store and stock up on the brightest, gaudiest scrunchies you can find, the birds will thank you for it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/23 "2019-10-15T00:50:34Z")
Cats in my family have killed a few birds and a lot of mice. I’m sorry about the birds. The mice? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/24 "2019-10-15T01:01:24Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Habitat loss, pesticides, and pollution are also to blame … Note that one important effect cats have is to reduce the habitat suitable for birds. In particular, the success of ground-nesting birds goes way down when cats are in the area. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/25 "2019-10-15T01:11:42Z")
Modern birds are supposed to have evolved from dinosaurs right, cats have been around for a while. Buildings and such kill more birds than cats from what I’ve just read. Sorry I’m not convinced that the death of birds is terribly important they will evolve or a different organism will fill that ecological niche, Im not seeing how it’s terribly important. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/26 "2019-10-15T01:24:55Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Modern birds are supposed to have evolved from dinosaurs right, cats have been around for a while. Buildings and such kill more birds than cats from what I’ve just read. Sorry I’m not convinced that the death of birds is terribly important they will evolve or a different organism will fill that ecological niche, Im not seeing how it’s terribly important. Did you actually read the articles to which I linked? It’s not just birds, it’s animals at all levels. Sure, something may, _eventually_, fill that ecological niche, but in the meantime, the Earth may become a very unfriendly place to live for many of its current species, including us. And, several of us have already said that cats are likely NOT the PRIMARY reason for the decline in birds. But, when birds (among many other species) are declining at a rapid pace, and people insist on sending their cats outside, that’s just exacerbating the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/27 "2019-10-15T01:33:32Z")
[Cats on Hawai’i are a serious problem.](https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/) > [@](#): > > Feral cats on islands have contributed to the extinction of 33 species and are the principle threat to 8% of critically endangered birds, mammals, and reptiles. Cats host Toxoplasma parasites. > [@](#): > > A single cat may excrete hundreds of millions of infectious eggs into the environment through its feces. Humans, especially pregnant women and those with weakened immune systems, are vulnerable to infection by this parasite. Toxoplasmosis infections killing sea otters and monk seals, both species are at risk. From the [American Bird Conservancy](https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/): > [@](#): > > Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction such as Piping Plover. > > The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species. Cats, in other words, kill billions of birds, they are tied to extinctions, and there is no good reason to have them outdoors (other than vermin/rodent control. Conversely, cats live longer, healthier lives if they are indoors. As far as whether you should care if species go extinct, I would argue yes. Removing animals from the ecosystem contains risk. It’s hard to know when the species that goes extinct is the one that eats all of the disease-bearing mosquitoes in your area, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/28 "2019-10-15T01:33:59Z")
Perhaps the OP was thinking of the Stephens Island Wren. That being said, I think humans have had a lot more to do with decimating (and extinctivizing) bird populations than Felis catus. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/29 "2019-10-15T01:38:42Z")
House cats have just recently moved into an environmental niche that was formerly filled by young boys with BB guns. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/30 "2019-10-15T03:04:57Z")
I’m quite sure my indoor-outdoor cat doesn’t catch birds because a) I’ve seen her try and she was crap at it, b) why wouldn’t she bring them in proudly like she does with mice? How is it we never see any bodies? Also, ‘all cats are perfectly happy not being let out’ is an extraordinary claim, thus requiring extraordinary evidence. It’s not true of all humans, so why would it be true of any other naturally-roaming species? Happy to keep her in when we’re visiting summer that has native wildlife. But that’s about it ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/31 "2019-10-15T03:11:13Z")
In some cities people think of the pigeons as “flying rats”, and are pleased that the cats take them out along with the actual rats and mice. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/32 "2019-10-15T03:22:16Z")
My kitties have always been indoors – my mother had too many cats lost when she was a child. (One a neighbor hit with a rake and broke its back. Another that I remember from when I was little was shot with a bb gun. She survived, but had a pin in her hip for the rest of her life) One other thing to remember is that cats live longer and healthier when they’re indoors. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/33 "2019-10-15T03:50:56Z")
Nope. The outdoor cat kills mice and ground squirles and pack-rats and maybe a bird or two. Who the fuck cares? That’s what cats do. Life, man. It ain’t what city-folk want. ---
**Author:** ![Garak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Garak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garak)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/34 "2019-10-15T04:01:19Z")
birds kill worms though so my cat is saving the worm population ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/35 "2019-10-15T04:21:40Z")
Do all these dead birds have an adverse effect on humans? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/36 "2019-10-15T05:22:46Z")
I’m skeptical. Our cats are indoor cats but I’ve had outdoor cats and, yes, they killed birds. Sparrows. But are they not native? What was the pre-sparrow population? Compared to what it has dropped to? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/37 "2019-10-15T06:00:13Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I need proof that the average overfed house cat could catch a full gown, healthy flighted bird. Now ferals are another thing. > I had a bird fly in my french doors one time. My cats went berserk but they never got anywhere near the bird. Birdy had the best defence, a pair of wings. YMMV. > > (My Siamese are strictly indoor cats) My neighbor has a sweet cat who was born and raised indoors. She has a catio so he can enjoy the outdoors safely. Birds sit 9 feet up on the chicken wire and poke their heads in to tease the cats. Score so far: overfed house cat: 2, birds: 0. I swear that cat has developed a swagger. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/38 "2019-10-15T07:18:23Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Google tells me that the global population of birds is around 400 Billion, I see birds every time I go outside in the morning, which doesn’t mean there population hasn’t been in decline, just anecdotal observation. Ok cats kill birds, I accept that, my next question is does it matter, is the world going to end or something? From that point of view, nothing matters.Climate change? Doesn’t matter, the rock called “Earth” will continue on until the sun swallows it. On the other hand, a lot of people are uncomfortable with the effect one species, humans, have on the planet. From their point of view, domestic pets killing lots of birds is a bad thing because it changes the environment we live in. In countries like New Zealand, domestic cats are a big threat to native birds. Will the world end if some New Zealand native bird species go extinct? No. But that’s not the point. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/39 "2019-10-15T07:29:41Z")
My current cats are indoor only but my previous indoor/outdoor cats did not kill a lot of birds. They tried, but they were not that motivated. But I gotta say, we had these birds that took over one of our hanging baskets to raise their family, and those birds were very irresponsible parents. Kept knocking the babes out of the nest. We put them back. (Maybe it was just one, over and over. Maybe they didn’t like that one.) Our cats watched in fascination from the front window. These birds don’t seem to have a lot of faith in glass when they’re flying, but they sure trust it when there are cats behind it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766/40 "2019-10-15T07:47:51Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Modern birds are supposed to have evolved from dinosaurs right, cats have been around for a while. Buildings and such kill more birds than cats from what I’ve just read. Sorry I’m not convinced that the death of birds is terribly important they will evolve or a different organism will fill that ecological niche :smack: Evolution does not work that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-re-wrong-about-your-outdoor-cat/841766.md?page=3)