# You see a heavily pregnant woman smoking - what do you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258 "2011-03-28T14:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/83 "2011-03-29T13:42:09Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I am skeptical that there is any polite way to nose into a stranger’s business in such a situation. There isn’t. Putting your nose into a strangers business is inherently rude. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/84 "2011-03-29T13:42:45Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I would be uber-polite, as I always am. > In fact, I’d begin with “Excuse me…” and if it looks like she’s already annoyed I’d just say “never mind”. At “Excuse me..” she probably thinks you’re going to ask her the time - so why would she “look..already annoyed”? > [@Mijin](#): > > Yes, because this would be a disproportionate response. I don’t think so. Other than the ‘_yanosybitch_’ part, it’s pretty much what I would say to some unknown plonker thinking they have the right, without my invitation, to tell me what to do. So no “disproportionate” behaviour from _you_ in your assumption that this woman’s choice to smoke is somehow _your_ business? > [@Mijin](#): > > As I alluded before: people used to offer me “helpful” advice all the time (I used to have a noticeable medical condition). I was never rude to any of them, **except if they thought they knew better than I did** , and weren’t listening. bolding mine - and in reference to previous posts of OB/GYN recommendations.. > [@acsenray](#): > > I am skeptical that there is any polite way to nose into a stranger’s business in such a situation. Totally agree, **acsenray** ; which is why I asked the (yet to be answered) question. “Excuse me…never mind” just doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/85 "2011-03-29T14:45:14Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > At “Excuse me..” she probably thinks you’re going to ask her the time - so why would she “look..already annoyed”? I’ve had people look annoyed, or even snap at me at the point of “Excuse me…”. e.g. One time where I was trying to tell someone they’d dropped money. Some people are just like that. > [@](#): > > I don’t think so. Other than the ‘_yanosybitch_’ part, it’s pretty much what I would say to some unknown plonker thinking they have the right, without my invitation, to tell me what to do. The most I would say is “Are you aware that that carries risks?” and leave it at that, regardless of her response. The idea that I am _telling someone what to do_ is not what I was suggesting, nor the OP. It’s completely your projection. > [@](#): > > So no “disproportionate” behaviour from _you_ in your assumption that this woman’s choice to smoke is somehow _your_ business? Correct. No name-calling, just a well-intentioned FYI. You can’t possibly equate the two things. And again, I’ve been the recipient of advice from such “nosey” people, and I am usually polite back because I appreciate that it is well-intentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/86 "2011-03-29T15:04:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The most I would say is “Are you aware that that carries risks?” and leave it at that, regardless of her response. > … > Correct. > No name-calling, just a well-intentioned FYI. > You can’t possibly equate the two things. Unfortunately, there is implied name calling there. That implied name calling is “Are you stupid?” “Have you been living under a rock?” “You are a bad mother.” “Did you pick an OB who is an idiot?” You are assuming that this person doesn’t know in order for the implied insult not to be seen. That is a pretty big assumption in the United States nowadays. Your chances of unintentionally insulting someone with your well-intentioned FYI are well over 50%. And in communication, what is heard is more important than what you intended to be heard. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/87 "2011-03-29T15:13:08Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > This sounds a little cruel, but…and? > > I have the right to terminate my pregnancy. That right extends to making decisions during my pregnancy that may or may not terminate that pregnancy. If I decide the cigarette is worth the risk of miscarriage, what business is it of yours? (Obviously, if you are pro-life, this line of reason doesn’t hold. But as a pro-choice person, I’m really not caring if you make decisions that do not end in live birth.) I am saying that “My mom smoked and it never did me any harm, therefore smoking isn’t really that big of a deal” is not a meaningful justification. I’m not saying it makes it appropriate to harass strangers about their choices. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/88 "2011-03-29T15:27:46Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Other - I would try to mentally calculate how much it’s costing Medicaid, and thus me. Are you saying that only low-income individuals would smoke while pregnant? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/89 "2011-03-29T15:51:26Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Unfortunately, there is implied name calling there. That implied name calling is “Are you stupid?” “Have you been living under a rock?” “You are a bad mother.” “Did you pick an OB who is an idiot?” So…I haven’t called her an idiot. Nor, in fact, am I actually thinking that, as I appreciate that: 1. We all have gaps in some things which are common knowledge, and 2. Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears. But still…I’m obviously a jerk and now she’s justified in giving me a piece of her mind :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/90 "2011-03-29T16:05:20Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So…I haven’t called her an idiot. Nor, in fact, am I actually thinking that, as I appreciate that: > > 1. We all have gaps in some things which are common knowledge, and > > … > > But still…I’m obviously a jerk and now she’s justified in giving me a piece of her mind :dubious: Yes, given the information you have offered in this thread, I’d say you are being a jerk. It’s not your business to take it upon yourself to correct any perceived gap in someone’s common knowledge when that person is minding her own goddamn business. No different than a vegetarian walking up to a stranger eating a hot dog to fill in the gaps in his knowledge about cruelty to animals or nutrition. You’d be less of a jerk if you were asking her to stop smoking because the smoke was actually having a physical effect on your. > [@](#): > > 1. Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears. What do you mean by this, exactly? Because it seems like nonsense to me. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/91 "2011-03-29T16:18:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So…I haven’t called her an idiot. Nor, in fact, am I actually thinking that, as I appreciate that: > > 1. We all have gaps in some things which are common knowledge, and > 2. Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears. > > But still…I’m obviously a jerk and now she’s justified in giving me a piece of her mind :dubious: So do you ask random pregnant women if they’re Rh negative and educate them about Rhogam? Do you suggest Alpha-fetoprotein tests to see if they’ve got a fetus with birth defects? Do you ask women who are mixing formula or buying their toddler a chocolate bar if they know they’re giving their children sub-obtimal nutrition? I mean, I’m about the parenting-advice-givingest person on the planet, but I limit it to patients, loved ones or people who ask me for that advice. You’re not their doctor, nurse, significant other or parent. They’ve not asked for your advice. As such, any mention of health risks and benefits by you \*is \*inherently rude. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/92 "2011-03-29T16:21:15Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > 1. Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears. > [@acsenray](#): > > What do you mean by this, exactly? Because it seems like nonsense to me. I think s/he is acknowledging that s/he might not have the full picture of why that person decided to smoke. Yes, it’s often more reliable to think horses (couldn’t be arsed to quit) than zebras (doctor thinks cutting down might actually be the wiser way to go), but we’ve had some interesting anecdotes that confirm the existence of zebras, as it were. I have one more. I used to work with a woman who quit smoking in anticipation of getting pregnant. Tried for a few months and ultimately conceived. In her 7th month, some very, very serious complications were discovered and it became apparent that her unborn child was not going to survive more than a few hours or—at the most— days after birth. She made the decision to terminate the pregnancy, but doing it in our state was not an option. She had to fly elsewhere for a 3rd-trimester termination, and the process of setting all of that up and negotiating with insurance and arranging travel took several weeks. She resumed smoking during those weeks. If you had happened upon her, you would have seen a heavily pregnant woman smoking. And if you chose to say something…? Definitely a zebra rather than a horse, but also definitely proof that you really do not ever know the story behind a stranger’s situation. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/93 "2011-03-29T16:38:17Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > No different than a vegetarian walking up to a stranger eating a hot dog to fill in the gaps in his knowledge about cruelty to animals or nutrition. That’s an example at one extreme. Another example might be if you saw someone about to eat some raw kidney beans. This is another example where I’d say something. > [@](#): > > What do you mean by this, exactly? Because it seems like nonsense to me. Riiight… “Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears” is nonsense? :dubious: Are you just trying to disagree with everything I say now? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/94 "2011-03-29T16:44:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So do you ask random pregnant women if they’re Rh negative and educate them about Rhogam? Do you suggest Alpha-fetoprotein tests to see if they’ve got a fetus with birth defects? Do you ask women who are mixing formula or buying their toddler a chocolate bar if they know they’re giving their children sub-obtimal nutrition? > > I mean, I’m about the parenting-advice-givingest person on the planet, but I limit it to patients, loved ones or people who ask me for that advice. You’re not their doctor, nurse, significant other or parent. They’ve not asked for your advice. As such, any mention of health risks and benefits by you \*is \*inherently rude. Similarly, in the situation I mentioned upthread, where I saw someone drop some money, I definitely shouldn’t have said anything. It would have been inherently rude. You know, because I’m not their accountant or bank manager. And telling them they’ve dropped money is exactly equivalent to enquiring about their stock portfolio, or suggesting which pension fund they should invest in. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/95 "2011-03-29T16:46:33Z")
We’re not talking about someone dropping money. We’re talking about someone smoking during pregnancy. The two situations are not equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/96 "2011-03-29T16:53:21Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That’s an example at one extreme. Another example might be if you saw someone about to eat some raw kidney beans. This is another example where I’d say something. If I saw someone about to drink a bottle of antifreeze, that might be the time to do something too, but smoking isn’t remotely comparable. People start smoking with full knowledge of its detrimental effects and they smoke for years. It’s very unlikely that any smoker hasn’t at one point or another been told _by people they actually know_ about the risks. These are a few ways in which raw kidney beans are different from smoking: (1) How often does it happen that someone is eating raw kidney beans in public and a casual observer can recognize them as raw kidney beans? (2) How common is the knowledge that raw kidney beans can be toxic? (3) How likely is it that someone who is eating raw kidney beans is doing it intentionally with full knowledge of its possible consequences? (4) How likely is it that someone started eating raw kidney beans as a teen-ager and has chosen to keep eating them for years? (5) How likely is it that stopping someone from eating raw kidney beans at this very moment is going to save him or her from a sudden, unexpected, severe medical problem? > [@](#): > > Riiight… > “Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears” is nonsense? :dubious: > > Are you just trying to disagree with everything I say now? No, it’s because you haven’t drawn any connection between the vague truism “sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears” and anything to do with the circumstances we’re talking about. So what if a situation is not exactly as it appears? What situation? What appearance? What consequence does acknowledging that there are situations and that they might appear in a manner that they are not have anything with smoking on the part of pregnant women and why it’s okay to intrude on their privacy? The way you’ve presented it, it looks like a random aphorism thrown out there. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/97 "2011-03-29T17:39:20Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > People start smoking with full knowledge of its detrimental effects and they smoke for years. It’s very unlikely that any smoker hasn’t at one point or another been told _by people they actually know_ about the risks. They may not be aware of how it affects an embryo however, or maybe they think “oh, it just causes low birth weight, right?” > [@](#): > > How common is the knowledge that raw kidney beans can be toxic? Common, but not universal. That’s why it’s an apt analogy. The same goes for the other questions. > [@](#): > > No, it’s because you haven’t drawn any connection between the vague truism “sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears” and anything to do with the circumstances we’re talking about. So what if a situation is not exactly as it appears? What situation? What appearance? What consequence does acknowledging that there are situations and that they might appear in a manner that they are not have anything with smoking on the part of pregnant women and why it’s okay to intrude on their privacy? The way you’ve presented it, it looks like a random aphorism thrown out there. Good, we’ve gone from “sounds like nonsense” to “truism”. What I’m saying is, I’d point something out to the person, hesitantly, politely, because I understand it’s entirely possible that I may not fully appreciate the situation. As an example, I help part-time as a carer / reader for a friend who is almost blind. Obviously there are many things she can do without my assistance however. Occasionally people will see me apparently letting her do something dangerous and they’ll try to say something helpful. So I (or my friend) will just say it’s OK or whatever, and leave it at that, because they’re well-meaning. It’s when you occasionally get someone that won’t listen and will insist “No, you must hold her arm when she’s doing that!” that we both get pissed. I actually have a much more relevant anecdote, but it’s going to sound contrived now: A friend of my mother’s has a condition that means she has quite a pronounced abdomen. In fact it’s only her apparent age which would make anyone even hesitate to conclude that she’s pregnant. Of course the OP here specifies someone heavily pregnant, but point is, in the abstract, it is possible to be mistaken that someone is pregnant. (Actually, now I think about it, it’s probably too late for the woman in the scenario for advice to make any difference anyway) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/98 "2011-03-29T17:42:15Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Other - I would try to mentally calculate how much it’s costing Medicaid, and thus me. I calculate how much less it would cost in Medicaid if she miscarried (because chances are if the delivery was on Medicaid the kid will be on Medicaid) and hope she takes up drinking and boxing. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/99 "2011-03-29T17:57:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So…I haven’t called her an idiot. Nor, in fact, am I actually thinking that, as I appreciate that: > > 1. We all have gaps in some things which are common knowledge, and > 2. Sometimes a situation is not exactly as it appears. > > But still…I’m obviously a jerk and now she’s justified in giving me a piece of her mind :dubious: Yep. You are assuming that somehow she has gotten to the point of being visibly pregnant and has not gotten information that appears on packs of cigarettes, has been part of a decades long PSA campaign, is part of health class in many high schools (my fifth grader knows this), and is part of the standard spiel any OB not interested in seeing his malpractice skyrocket gives. That assumption is frankly patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/100 "2011-03-29T18:15:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > They may not be aware of how it affects an embryo however, or maybe they think “oh, it just causes low birth weight, right?” At this point in time and in our society, thinking that _anyone_ who is smoking doesn’t have some idea of the consequences is extremely dubious. And taking it upon yourself to educating them is pretty high-handed. > [@](#): > > Common, but not universal. That’s why it’s an apt analogy. > The same goes for the other questions. I disagree. On every one of those questions, raw kidney beans falls on the opposite end of the scale from tobacco smoking. Most people don’t know about the toxicity of raw kidney beans and stopping someone from eating them is likely to prevent an imminent, severe, unintentioned medical problem, like pushing someone out of the way of a train. That’s completely unlike smoking > [@](#): > > Good, we’ve gone from “sounds like nonsense” to “truism”. Eh, no. I was declaring your introduction of the phrase to the discussion as nonsense, not the phrase itself. > [@](#): > > What I’m saying is, I’d point something out to the person, hesitantly, politely, because I understand it’s entirely possible that I may not fully appreciate the situation. You need to take your understanding a step further and realize that smoking tobacco is as ordinary as drinking alcohol or soda pop, eating high-fat food, exceeding the speed limit, going out in the cold without a hat, or wearing white after Labor Day. It’s a choice that people make about their personal lives that doesn’t warrant unsolicited advice. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/101 "2011-03-29T20:47:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Common, but not universal. That’s why it’s an apt analogy. > The same goes for the other questions. I’d never even heard of it being toxic. Contrast that to anti smoking ads which are pretty universal. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258/102 "2011-03-29T23:25:51Z")
Not to mention the social stigma. It’s not as though people don’t feel free to tell you you shouldn’t smoke when you’re NOT visibly pregnant. Believe me, you are not imparting any valuable new information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-see-a-heavily-pregnant-woman-smoking-what-do-you-do/576258.md?page=6)