# you should be able to buy votes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351 "2009-02-04T02:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/1 "2009-02-04T02:37:05Z")
Here’s a wacky idea for you hearty Teemers to ponder. I propose that we sell votes in our democracy. Anyone with enough money can buy all the votes they want. Price starts at ten million dollars each. 😛 That way, the rich will actually pay money to the government, and even the super rich can’t really get enough votes to have much impact. Whaddaya think? Insane? Or just so crazy, it just might work? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/2 "2009-02-04T03:01:15Z")
So rich people get to decide what happens, and everyone else can just go fuck themselves. Sounds like a great plan to me! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/3 "2009-02-04T03:12:27Z")
I think he means ten million bucks to buy one extra vote. It would take a billion dollars to buy one hundred votes. and a Trillion to buy a hundred thousand. Not likely that anyone would be THAT motivated to change the outcome of any given election. Would individuals be allowed to sell their votes privately, or would this be a government monopoly? Would I be allowed to sell my vote at a reduced price, or would I need to produce documentation that I had received the whole ten million? And would I have to pay income tax on the ten million? Welcome to the Dope, btw, **MichaelJohnBertrand**. If your first couple of days are any indication, you’re kinda weird, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/4 "2009-02-04T03:54:28Z")
I think you’ll find that a Congresscritter’s vote goes for less than a million now. And the former IL Governor set the price to new Senators so they’re not that expensive either. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/5 "2009-02-04T04:22:18Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > …even the super rich can’t really get enough votes to have much impact. So why would anyone ever buy one? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/6 "2009-02-04T04:50:47Z")
Quick dose of reality… We have politicians buying votes on a continual basis, but they use taxpayer money to do so. Look at many parts of the so called Stimulus Bill making it’s way through Congress. It’s loaded with “payback” measures either paying groups back for their votes or others for their financial support during the campaign. If not in bills, there is also the quick and dirty Executive Order method. How many trial lawyers do you think are lined up to cash in on the no time limit wage discrimination order. If you think this Order was to benefit wage earners, wake up and smell the coffee. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/7 "2009-02-04T04:50:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I think he means ten million bucks to buy one extra vote. It would take a billion dollars to buy one hundred votes. and a Trillion to buy a hundred thousand. Not likely that anyone would be THAT motivated to change the outcome of any given election. > > Would individuals be allowed to sell their votes privately, or would this be a government monopoly? Would I be allowed to sell my vote at a reduced price, or would I need to produce documentation that I had received the whole ten million? And would I have to pay income tax on the ten million? > > Welcome to the Dope, btw, **MichaelJohnBertrand**. If your first couple of days are any indication, you’re kinda weird, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Only kinda weird? I must not be trying hard enough. 🙂 Seriously though : I think the private resale of the votes would probably not be allowed. We don’t want speculators, we want people who are willing to psend a lot of money in order to feel special. I’ll think about it more, though. I hadn’t thought abut private sale until now. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/8 "2009-02-04T04:56:27Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > So why would anyone ever buy one? Damn good question! And the answer is, because it would make them feel special. One of the most powerful forces driving people to acquire wealth, power, and privilege is the desire to set themselves above others, to feel they are indeed very special people who deserve more than what others get. This would feed into that desire. It won’t matter to this type of person that their votes can’t sway the entire election, or that really it makes no difference overall. All that matter is that they have more votes than the common man, and can lord it over the common people and feel superior and look down at people. They can say "Of course, because I am a person of wealth, superior breeding, and substance, I have thirty times as many votes as some squalid wage slave. " Sure, practical, pragmatic people will shun it. But morons with money will flock to it and fight each other for the privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/9 "2009-02-04T05:43:38Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > Sure, practical, pragmatic people will shun it. But morons with money will flock to it and fight each other for the privilege. Aren’t morons the last people we want to be voting? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/10 "2009-02-04T05:54:15Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > I propose that we sell votes in our democracy. Anyone with enough money can buy all the votes they want. > > Price starts at ten million dollars each. 😛 Considering we cannot even count ordinary votes today, why disenfranchise even more people? ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/11 "2009-02-04T05:59:26Z")
I can see how allowing people to trade their votes could be rationalized (even though it’s stupid and a bad idea), but this appears to be just buying new votes out of the ether for exorbitant prices. No, it’s ridiculous and defeats the purpose of democracy. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/12 "2009-02-04T06:44:26Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > I can see how allowing people to trade their votes could be rationalized (even though it’s stupid and a bad idea), but this appears to be just buying new votes out of the ether for exorbitant prices. No, it’s ridiculous and defeats the purpose of democracy. > > Valete, > Vox Imperatoris Well, we’re not talking letting people trade away their one vote. We’re just talking about letting rich people waste their money buying more. Call it a voluntary tax. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/13 "2009-02-04T06:46:32Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Considering we cannot even count ordinary votes today, why disenfranchise even more people? To get money for much-needed government programs without having to raise taxes. It won’t have much effect on democracy, and yet, the potential revenue could go a long way to paying off the national debt. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/14 "2009-02-04T06:51:19Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > Well, we’re not talking letting people trade away their one vote. We’re just talking about letting rich people waste their money buying more. > > Call it a voluntary tax. I know what you’re saying. I’m saying it’s an even worse idea than letting people trade their vote. Plus, no one would buy these votes. Rich people are not known to get that way by blowing $10 million on useless things. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/15 "2009-02-04T07:04:06Z")
Most millionaires and billionaires did not become that way by being idiots. And I don’t see your idiot-heiress type caring much about politics. Which do you think is going to make Paris Hilton feel more special – being able to cast a dozen votes in some election, or buying a hot pink learjet with a jacuzzi inside? You’d get more bang for your buck by pulling a hundred homeless guys off the street, giving them $50, and suggesting how you want them to vote. Even if 40% of them screw you by getting in the booth and doing the opposite, you still end up with a net gain of 20 votes, at a cost of $5,000. It’s a good thing nothing remotely like that ever happens. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/16 "2009-02-04T07:04:16Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > I know what you’re saying. I’m saying it’s an even worse idea than letting people trade their vote. Plus, no one would buy these votes. Rich people are not known to get that way by blowing $10 million on useless things. > > Valete, > Vox Imperatoris Well, you’re assuming that everyone who is rich got that way themselves. I’m thinking trust fund babies will be the ones going for this, and others who are vain, self-important, and not terribly practical. Perhaps the extra votes could be awarded in some very solemn and official looking ceremony, to really ham up the self-importance angle. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/17 "2009-02-04T07:22:38Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > So rich people get to decide what happens, and everyone else can just go fuck themselves. Sounds like a great plan to me! That’s different from how it is now in what way? We should be able to sell our votes. That’d be great. Every year the candidates buy your support. It’s a way to make some extra cash on election season. If you’re a swing vote in an important district well then you just might get to buy a new car with that money. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/18 "2009-02-04T12:56:59Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > Or just so crazy, it just might work? No, unfortunately this falls into the more pedestrian realm of “so crazy, it just might be a really terrible idea.” Aside from being antidemocratic, it’s impractical: since you say yourself nobody would ever win an election this way, few people would bother. Once in a while some rich goof might buy a couple of votes as a gag, but it wouldn’t make a dent in the national debt or anything. ---
**Author:** ![achilles\_bogart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@achilles\_bogart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/achilles_bogart)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/19 "2009-02-04T13:04:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > So rich people get to decide what happens, and everyone else can just go fuck themselves. Sounds like a great plan to me! Black, White, Asian, Christian, Moslem, Hindu, etc It doesn’t matter, the one thing we will never see is a poor president. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/20 "2009-02-04T13:10:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, unfortunately this falls into the more pedestrian realm of “so crazy, it just might be a really terrible idea.” Aside from being antidemocratic, it’s impractical: since you say yourself nobody would ever win an election this way, few people would bother. Once in a while some rich goof might buy a couple of votes as a gag, but it wouldn’t make a dent in the national debt or anything. I think, perhaps, that I have a more cynical view of the potential follies of the rich than most of the people here on the Board. I honestly think that there’s people out there with far more money than brains who would go for this, especially if you sold it as “the ultimate inuldence for only the truly elite of the elite”. And hey, if not a lot of people go for it, not much harm to democracy, right? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351.md?page=2)