# you should be able to buy votes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351 "2009-02-04T02:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/21 "2009-02-04T13:17:02Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > I think, perhaps, that I have a more cynical view of the potential follies of the rich than most of the people here on the Board. I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > I honestly think that there’s people out there with far more money than brains who would go for this, especially if you sold it as “the ultimate inuldence for only the truly elite of the elite”. What, other than actually running for office? Every four years there’s a rumor that some fabulously wealthy person or other will run for president - Trump, Bloomberg, etc. Usually they don’t bother because it’s a lot of work for less pay than they are accustomed to. A lot of wealthy people may lack common sense, but they’re usually good at making money, and buying votes at $10 million a pop when they can’t win by definition is a bad investment. > [@](#): > > And hey, if not a lot of people go for it, not much harm to democracy, right? Not to pull out a slippery slope argument, but that’s something I’d prefer the government not mess with more than it already does. Your sales pitch is awful. The best you can say for the plan is “the government might get a few spare dollars and probably not hurt democracy very much.” What’s the incentive? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/22 "2009-02-04T13:21:19Z")
I usually hate using slippery slope arguments too, but I have to do it here - if you allow votes to be sold for $10 million, sooner or later the legislature will lower the price to $1000, and from there to $10 or even less. Remember, the lower the price is, the more power the rich will have. No corporation will spend $10 million for a single vote; \*all \*of them would spend $10 million for a million votes. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/23 "2009-02-04T14:46:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I usually hate using slippery slope arguments too, but I have to do it here - if you allow votes to be sold for $10 million, sooner or later the legislature will lower the price to $1000, and from there to $10 or even less. Remember, the lower the price is, the more power the rich will have. No corporation will spend $10 million for a single vote; \*all \*of them would spend $10 million for a million votes. Hmmm. You have a point there. Perhaps this slope is, legitimately, a slick one. Well, time to unveil my other big crazy idea along these lines then… (stay tuned for a new thread, true believers!) ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/24 "2009-02-04T15:37:14Z")
Sane people (your hypothetical vain fools quick to part with their excess millions do not exist) won’t buy jack unless the votage/cost trade off is enough for them to see themselves making even one conceivable iota of a difference, and at that point you shouldn’t be selling. This is one case where I think the supply and demand curves don’t meet. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/25 "2009-02-04T16:11:18Z")
Rich people can already use their wealth to influence elections by funding PACs and lobbyists. Why pay 10 million for one vote, when they can buy TV ads and influence thousands of votes? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/26 "2009-02-04T16:23:00Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > Rich people can already use their wealth to influence elections by funding PACs and lobbyists. Why pay 10 million for one vote, when they can buy TV ads and influence thousands of votes? > > Jonathan The hope would be that they’d not realize this. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/27 "2009-02-04T17:10:30Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > The hope would be that they’d not realize this. 😛 The cat is way, way, way out of the bag on this one. And aside from PACs, industries spend tons of money lobbying governments directly. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/28 "2009-02-04T18:08:35Z")
If people could sell their vote and the voting process remained secret, how would you enforce verification? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/29 "2009-02-04T18:40:10Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > If not in bills, there is also the quick and dirty Executive Order method. How many trial lawyers do you think are lined up to cash in on the no time limit wage discrimination order. If you think this Order was to benefit wage earners, wake up and smell the coffee. If you think it wasn’t, you have no idea why he did it in the first place. Hint: look up “Lily Ledbetter”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/30 "2009-02-04T20:05:18Z")
No, our present system where lobbies can purchase votes of senators and congressmen is the best that money can buy. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/31 "2009-02-04T20:20:24Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > To get money for much-needed government programs without having to raise taxes. > > It won’t have much effect on democracy, and yet, the potential revenue could go a long way to paying off the national debt. Consider the national debt [is in excess of $10 trillion](http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/), how many votes do you intend to purchase and what’s your ROI timetable to make the entire project viable? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/32 "2009-02-04T21:18:19Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Consider the national debt [is in excess of $10 trillion](http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/), how many votes do you intend to purchase and what’s your ROI timetable to make the entire project viable? Hmmm. That would be around one million votes, wouldn’t it? That’s probably too many for one year, at least. Might want to spread it out over 20 years or so. ROI? Rate of Interest? Hadn’t gotten that far. Still not sure if they should be allowed to be traded like commodities either. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/33 "2009-02-05T03:09:49Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > If people could sell their vote and the voting process remained secret, how would you enforce verification? Presumably you would just forbid the vote-seller from the polls and allow the vote-buyer to vote twice. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/34 "2009-02-05T05:09:26Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > ROI? Rate of Interest? Hadn’t gotten that far. No businessman I, but I do know that ROI stands for Return On Investment. Really, the entire suggestion doesn’t have much value beyond a joke. Like the Dilbert cartoon I once saw where Wally or the PHB or someone suggested pricing their product at ten million, one hundred dollars, and offering a ten million dollar rebate. All it would take would be one customer to not bother with the rebate process, and they’d be golden. Fun idea to bat around over pizza and beer in the dorms, though. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/35 "2009-02-05T05:15:52Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Quick dose of reality… > > \ > > If not in bills, there is also the quick and dirty Executive Order method. How many trial lawyers do you think are lined up to cash in on the no time limit wage discrimination order. If you think this Order was to benefit wage earners, wake up and smell the coffee. What, precisely, are you referencing here? If it’s the recently signed Lily Ledbetter law, that was actual legislation, not an executive order. And it’s not really accurate to call it “no time limit.” If a company stops paying discriminatorially, and no legal action is initiated for the next six months, they will effectively have gotten away with it, just as Goodyear did. Of course, if you were referring to something else, please do elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351/36 "2009-02-05T05:59:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No businessman I, but I do know that ROI stands for Return On Investment. > > Really, the entire suggestion doesn’t have much value beyond a joke. Like the Dilbert cartoon I once saw where Wally or the PHB or someone suggested pricing their product at ten million, one hundred dollars, and offering a ten million dollar rebate. All it would take would be one customer to not bother with the rebate process, and they’d be golden. > > Fun idea to bat around over pizza and beer in the dorms, though. Oh duh. 😛 Can’t beleive I forgot what ROI meant. And yeah, this is not exactly my Totally Serious Plan To Save The World. Just an interesting idea to think about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-be-able-to-buy-votes/484351.md?page=1)