# You should frankly drop your "jobs" section rather than use a crappy one **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568 "2011-01-06T02:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/21 "2011-01-07T15:57:16Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > Former supervisors have long since moved on. Some of my former supervisors have made the ultimate move, to the cemetery. “May we contact?” Well yeah, if you’re a medium. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/22 "2011-01-07T15:58:12Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Oh, fuck YESSS. This is incredibly annoying and has driven me to give up on job applications simply because their process is so fucking retarded. Excellent. Self-culling your own name from the list of potential employees saves everyone alot of time. > [@Sitnam](#): > > Technology only disguises a fundamental truth. It’s friends and acquaintances that get you jobs. Absolutely. And the sooner people get over their irrational indignation being offended by web pages the sooner they may attain a general attitude worthy of employment, whether they get referred by a friend or acquaintance or manage to slip through the HR automatic employee disqualification system. It does happen occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/23 "2011-01-07T17:22:47Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Excellent. Self-culling your own name from the list of potential employees saves everyone alot of time. > > Absolutely. And the sooner people get over their irrational indignation being offended by web pages the sooner they may attain a general attitude worthy of employment, whether they get referred by a friend or acquaintance or manage to slip through the HR automatic employee disqualification system. > > It does happen occasionally. My new favorite Post/Screen Name combo of the new year. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/24 "2011-01-07T17:38:03Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Technology only disguises a fundamental truth. It’s friends and acquaintances that get you jobs. Well, exactly. And so why bother with an elaborate online job application? Just list the jobs available, and have a spot where the hopeful can paste in their resume. You don’t waste anyone’s time. Sure, you’re not going to actually look at those resumes, but it only took them 2 minutes to apply. If you’re not going to look at the application anyway, why bother making someone take an hour to fill it out? Or, if you really want to keep the riffraff out, don’t even list the job. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/25 "2011-01-08T05:17:03Z")
I just spent an hour yesterday with this horseshit, putting in a job application for a computer-illiterate unemployed friend. I’ll be spending more hours in the near future putting in more applications. I wonder who, if anyone, reads them and if they ponder each of the 72 questions on character and ethics. “If you saw a co-worker stealing, would you a) turn him in, b) ignore it, c) demand a cut for yourself”. ??? But that’s the way it’s done now. It’s like spitting in the ocean. I doubt we’ll ever get any nibbles, but I’m going through the supremely frustrating motions because that’s the way it’s done now. And they wonder why I drink. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/26 "2011-01-08T05:38:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If you’re not going to look at the application anyway, why bother making someone take an hour to fill it out? Or, if you really want to keep the riffraff out, don’t even list the job. I honestly think that it would be better for a lot of people if businesses (and, in some cases, Govt. Departments) _weren’t_ obligated/required to advertise externally for jobs they’ve already got someone earmarked for internally. I know I’m sick of writing 2,000+ word applications addressing Key Selection Criteria for a job I’ve got no chance of getting because they’ve already given it to Fred from the Buying Department, but have to advertise it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/27 "2011-01-08T06:38:16Z")
I work for WA state, and felt incredibly bad for the guy flying in from FL to interview when they were already 99% sure they were going to hire internally. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/28 "2011-01-08T06:42:25Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Excellent. Self-culling your own name from the list of potential employees saves everyone alot of time. > > Absolutely. And the sooner people get over their irrational indignation being offended by web pages the sooner they may attain a general attitude worthy of employment, whether they get referred by a friend or acquaintance or manage to slip through the HR automatic employee disqualification system. > > It does happen occasionally. I knew it was a matter of time before a drone defended these practices. Don’t you have some synergy to go promote? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/29 "2011-01-08T08:50:07Z")
If you think that’s bad (and it is. A lot of those online forms are from the devil), try working in a field where most employers hire from employment agencies. You respond to a classified, get an appointment with the employment agency, have an interview, they tell you “We don’t have anything open right now, but we’ll let you know”, and then they just forget about you. Then almost every single job in your field is being filled through an employment agency you already interviewed at. ---
**Author:** ![ImNotPaulAvery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@ImNotPaulAvery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ImNotPaulAvery)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/30 "2011-01-08T10:28:07Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I honestly think that it would be better for a lot of people if businesses (and, in some cases, Govt. Departments) _weren’t_ obligated/required to advertise externally for jobs they’ve already got someone earmarked for internally. > > I know I’m sick of writing 2,000+ word applications addressing Key Selection Criteria for a job I’ve got no chance of getting because they’ve already given it to Fred from the Buying Department, but have to advertise it anyway. Quoted For Truth. I interviewed for two jobs at the same place a couple months apart. The department head called me today and told me I was their second choice each time - I was beaten by the internal candidate both those times. I appreciate the consideration, but I could have really saved the time and gas money for something I actually had a shot at. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/31 "2011-01-08T16:00:44Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I knew it was a matter of time before a drone defended these practices. I look at it not as defending “these practices,” but more as "off"ending the people who can’t get over them(selves). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/32 "2011-01-08T16:06:27Z")
If I have to start the application process at Company X by taking forty-five minutes to do something that I could accomplish in two minutes–with better results, I might add–what does that say about Company X? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/33 "2011-01-08T17:48:48Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I knew it was a matter of time before a drone defended these practices. Don’t you have some synergy to go promote? Nah, he’s probably too busy designing the new cover sheets for the TPS reports. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/34 "2011-01-08T22:14:07Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > I look at it not as defending “these practices,” but more as "off"ending the people who can’t get over them(selves). 😃 **Nadir** , that’s incredibly stupid. That’s the blind-idiot mindset which created the problem, which acknowledge is a problem. It’s a real problem, it hurts the companies themselves, and it ought to be fixed. I have a motto. “Do the thing right. Do it as it _ought_ to be done.” (I imagine it being spoken by Fred Thompson). It’s not about being full of ones-self: it’s perfectly normal, even good to be offended by bad practices, even when they don’t personally hurt you. And these do that too! You claim that once we can “get over” this we will have a “general attitude worthy of employment.” You’ve just demonstrated that all you care about is staying within the system, doing nothing of use to anyone, and if I was hiring you are exactly the employee I’d have thrown out on his ass for laziness. If all you ever do is mindlessly obey, why the fuck shouldn’t I replace you? And any company which follows that mindset is headed to the graveyard. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/35 "2011-01-08T22:40:07Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I honestly think that it would be better for a lot of people if businesses (and, in some cases, Govt. Departments) _weren’t_ obligated/required to advertise externally for jobs they’ve already got someone earmarked for internally. Some businesses do have a bit of sense. I remember seeing a few job descriptions which explicitly state that they have a “strong internal candidate”. I.e. we have to list it externally to make everyone happy, but if you really want you can send an application for someone to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/36 "2011-01-09T01:56:31Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Some businesses do have a bit of sense. I remember seeing a few job descriptions which explicitly state that they have a “strong internal candidate”. I.e. we have to list it externally to make everyone happy, but if you really want you can send an application for someone to ignore. I’m all in favour of this sort of thing, but apparently Government Departments aren’t allowed to do it (at least not here). I actually asked, as part of my feedback from an unsuccessful application, why they hadn’t said that there was someone internally to whom the job was pretty much guaranteed, and they said “We’re not allowed to.” They’re allowed to tell you if the job has someone acting in a temporary capacity, apparently, but if the job is vacant and they’ve promised it to someone who already works there, the only way you’ll find out is when you don’t get the job and ring up to ask why. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/37 "2011-01-10T16:58:35Z")
I honestly don’t mind a bit if my resume gets dropped into the wastebasket. That’s completely fine. The company has a job to fill, and they need one guy, so they don’t need to handhold me when they ignore my resume. That’s if it took me 3 minutes to apply for the job. If it’s “Hey we have a job, cut and paste your text resume here”. If it takes an hour to fill in your crappy application that you’re going to ignore, it’s a different story. What that shows me is that the company doesn’t give a shit about its potential employees, which means they don’t give a shit about their employees, which means they don’t give a shit about their customers, which means they don’t give a shit about anything. It’s like walking into an office in person to apply for a job, and seeing the CEO kick an orphan in the nuts, while all the employees look away and pretend not to notice. It’s a little window into how that company operates, and how you’ll be expected to operate if you’re hired there. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/38 "2011-01-10T19:25:24Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Excellent. Self-culling your own name from the list of potential employees saves everyone alot of time. And that’s the objective, of course - saving time by cutting down the candidate pool by some mean or other. As far as I can tell, HR departments will do anything to find the best candidate for the job, as long as it doesn’t involve understanding the job requirements, reading a resume or matching the two. > [@](#): > > And the sooner people get over their irrational indignation being offended by web pages the sooner they may attain a general attitude worthy of employment, whether they get referred by a friend or acquaintance or manage to slip through the HR automatic employee disqualification system. Not wanting to spend 45 minutes on mindless drudge work that could have been done in 5 means not having an attitude worthy of employment. Mmmkay, then. If that’s the prevailing attitude towards employees, I guess it’s only fair to place the warning up front. Making sure applicants understand their place from day one is undoubtedly a surefire way to attract top talent. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/39 "2011-01-10T19:53:23Z")
Believe it or not, this makes me appreciate the Federal Government a little bit. Putting your application package together is a pain and takes a really long time, but you only have to do it once. Then you just click on the jobs you want to apply for. Once I waited four months to get hired, after being promised a job (at a public university in New Jersey), while they interviewed a minimum of three outside applicants and any internal people who thought they might want the job (I was an outside applicant at the time). I felt really guilty about all these people being forced to put on a suit, get all stressed, and waste a bunch of time when I was the one they were going to hire all along. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568/40 "2011-01-10T20:10:47Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m all in favour of this sort of thing, but apparently Government Departments aren’t allowed to do it (at least not here). I actually asked, as part of my feedback from an unsuccessful application, why they hadn’t said that there was someone internally to whom the job was pretty much guaranteed, and they said “We’re not allowed to.” They’re allowed to tell you if the job has someone acting in a temporary capacity, apparently, but if the job is vacant and they’ve promised it to someone who already works there, the only way you’ll find out is when you don’t get the job and ring up to ask why. I used to teach college…and this problem is huge. To add injury to injury many times you are on your own for interviewing travel expenses. However, the college is required to advertise nationally. The best thing to do is refuse to go to an interview unless they pay for the trip or at least share the expenses. However, sometimes you really want to be hired at a particular place and will be tempted. The next best thing to do is throw yourself on their mercy. You will have some faculty member in charge of contacting you and setting up the interview. Just ask ‘Is there an Internal candidate for this position or a favored local candidate?’ . Usually they will respond saying that they cannot say…but then bring up starving children…ill mothers in hospitals racking up bills etc and ask again. Many times they will tell you. It’s also surprising the % of the time the answer is ‘yes’. The other problem you have to sound out for (if you are a white male like me) is…I would pre-apologise for the question and that the question I am about to ask might be offensive…but I need to know if I have a real shot at this position because handling interviewing expensives for a position I do not get will be a real hardship. I am willing to take that risk because I really would love to teach at xxxxx but I need to make sure I have a shot at getting the position…how many white males have you hired in your division in the past year?" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-should-frankly-drop-your-jobs-section-rather-than-use-a-crappy-one/566568.md?page=3)