# "You shouldn't be gay" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962 "2008-02-02T05:47:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/21 "2008-02-02T23:22:56Z")
And people think Carl Hiaasen is making things up. There is a _reason_ Dave Barry comes from Florida. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/22 "2008-02-03T00:13:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] I take serious exception to your characterization of my home. It’s not the “rest of the state”. There are threeish distinct areas in Florida, and only 1 of them is in the south. [/QUOTE] What are the three areas - the Miami area, the I-4 corridor, and everything else? Because I can tell you (and my 6th-generation Floridian wife, who’s from there, can confirm), even parts of the I-4 corridor are unquestionably part of the South. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/23 "2008-02-03T02:09:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] There are threeish distinct areas in Florida, and only 1 of them is in the south. [/QUOTE] So what are they? Let’s see, you have God’s waiting room down in the south, The Redneck zone, and what, Scientology City? Do I get a prize? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/24 "2008-02-03T02:59:04Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I was inaccurate in my first post when I said “the court has found that minors do not have 1st Amendment rights in speech and dress while they are in school”, a better way to express what I meant would be “Schools have the right to limit a student’s 1st Amendment rights to free speech while they are at school”; and the link you’ve provided seems to support that: Right? [/QUOTE] _If_ the student’s exercise of free speech is disruptive. Which, honestly, appears to be the case. This is one hell of a sketchy “news” report, but it sounds like the students were suspended because they were planning to stage a walk-out. Which is disruptive, and fair game for disciplinary actions. If he’s suspending kids for wearing a pride t-shirt, or just for being openly gay, that’s an entirely different kettle of fish. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/25 "2008-02-03T04:05:17Z")
Non-college age students aren’t granted the same First Amendment rights college students are in practice by many schools. Things like the [Hazelwood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_v._Kuhlmeier) decision, and other court precendents severely curtail just how much expression while in school/school activities they get. It seems the ACLU is working to get this made more equal, but for now, non-college students have less rights to express their opinion while in school than others. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/26 "2008-02-03T04:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] I take serious exception to your characterization of my home. It’s not the “rest of the state”. There are threeish distinct areas in Florida, and only 1 of them is in the south. [/QUOTE] Let the record show that **Bambi** actually lives in the one that’s in the South 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/27 "2008-02-03T07:42:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is one hell of a sketchy “news” report, but it sounds like the students were suspended because they were planning to stage a walk-out. Which is disruptive, and fair game for disciplinary actions. I’ll give you that, but sometimes a walk-out is what’s needed. Frankly, I’ve never heard of a school walk-out (or sit-in) that wasn’t earned 150% by the school/district. > [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > It seems the ACLU is working to get this made more equal, but for now, non-college students have less rights to express their opinion while in school than others. And some colleges are working hard to make free expression more difficult on their campuses, too. [UCSD](http://www.ucsdfreespeech.com/) tried to sneak new rules in under the students’ nose [late last year](http://www.sdcitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=6380). (I haven’t heard what happened.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/28 "2008-02-03T08:16:07Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] I reviewed several of the Supreme Court’s decisions on free speech for a paper last semester, and found that student free speech is only unprotected when it interferes with a public school’s academic mission. Which this absolutely does not. In fact, IIRC, the free speech of a group of students with a banner reading “Bong Hits 4 Jesus” (which was either intentionally inflammatory or devoutly Rastafarian, and how many devout Rastafarians have you met in American high schools?) was protected at a school-sponsored event just because it didn’t occur during class time or some such thing. [/QUOTE] What grade did you get on your paper? The “Bong Hits for Jesus” case was not decided as you recall. The case was [Morse v. Frederick](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=06-278), and it held: > [@Supreme Court head notes](#): > > At a school-sanctioned and school-supervised event, petitioner Morse, the high school principal, saw students unfurl a banner stating “BONG HiTS 4 JESUS,” which she regarded as promoting illegal drug use. Consistent with established school policy prohibiting such messages at school events, Morse directed the students to take down the banner. When one of the students who had brought the banner to the event–respondent Frederick–refused, Morse confiscated the banner and later suspended him. > . > . > . > **Held: Because schools may take steps to safeguard those entrusted to their care from speech that can reasonably be regarded as encouraging illegal drug use, the school officials in this case did not violate the First Amendment by confiscating the pro-drug banner and suspending Frederick.** Nor are “discipline” or “disruptive” the only issues. In _Bethel School District v. Fraser_, the Supreme Court upheld the suspension of a student for giving a speech concerning the candidacy of another student that contained the following sexual innuendo: > [@](#): > > "`I know a man who is firm - he’s firm in his pants, he’s firm in his shirt, his character is firm - but most . . . of all, his belief in you, the students of Bethel, is firm. > > "`Jeff Kuhlman is a man who takes his point and pounds it in. If necessary, he’ll take an issue and nail it to the wall. He doesn’t attack things in spurts - he drives hard, pushing and pushing until finally - he succeeds. > > "`Jeff is a man who will go to the very end - even the climax, for each and every one of you. > > “`So vote for Jeff for A. S. B. vice-president - he’ll never come between you and the best our high school can be.'” The Court said: > [@Supreme Court](#): > > The First Amendment did not prevent the School District from disciplining respondent for giving the offensively lewd and indecent speech at the assembly. . . . Under the First Amendment, the use of an offensive form of expression may not be prohibited to adults making what the speaker considers a political point, but it does not follow that the same latitude must be permitted to children in a public school. It is a highly appropriate function of public school education to prohibit the use of vulgar and offensive terms in public discourse. Nothing in the Constitution prohibits the states from insisting that certain modes of expression are inappropriate and subject to sanctions. The inculcation of these values is truly the work of the school, and the determination of what manner of speech is inappropriate properly rests with the school board. ---
**Author:** ![memmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b77776/32.png) [@memmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/memmy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/29 "2008-02-03T08:37:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] What grade did you get on your paper? The “Bong Hits for Jesus” case was not decided as you recall. The case was [Morse v. Frederick](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=06-278), and it held: Nor are “discipline” or “disruptive” the only issues. In _Bethel School District v. Fraser_, the Supreme Court upheld the suspension of a student for giving a speech concerning the candidacy of another student that contained the following sexual innuendo: The Court said: [/QUOTE] Wish I had your job. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/30 "2008-02-03T09:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] The bit with the Downs syndrome namecalling comes from a comment by “concerned mother” at PDL: > [@Concerned Mom](#): > > Mr Davis just needs to go away. That man is a disgrace to our School. He don’t only pick on and make ugly comments about the Gay but he also has made remarks to a friend of mine about her child being Down Syndrome!!!. His words were I can’t help you have a Retarted child that is a personal problem. Deal with it. First of all Down Syndrome Children can learn just like any other child.Down Syndrome Children are very special and very smart.When people say Down Syndrome they always think STUPID! WRONG ANSWER… Down Syndrome or any other special needs child like 9PMinus, Autisim, Etc. have the right to learn just like everybody else. they are not retarted or stupid. They are very smart people and if we would all take time to listen and watch we all could learn a whole lot from our special needs people.Mr. Davis needs to take some lessons from people with special needs he would become a better man. Any child special needs , Gay, or whatever the case is a person who has rights to learn [/quote] So while we’re snarking on the grammar and spelling of those that thought the Principal (_sic_) had a point, let’s not ignore the other side. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/31 "2008-02-03T15:40:41Z")
This is why I try to avoid deep involvement in stories that appear to be sourced primarily from (local) TV news websites. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/32 "2008-02-03T15:58:07Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] The Court said: [/QUOTE] Yeah, but the Supreme Court was COMPLETELY WRONG in that decision. The correct decision should read: “What the fuck are you morons doing, bringing us this hinky series of double entendres and trying to pass it off as a free speech issue? Sure the kid’s speech was silly and sexually suggestive, so what? Jeebus, get a life. Case dismissed.” Same decision would apply to the Bong Hits case as well. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/33 "2008-02-03T16:00:58Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] So while we’re snarking on the grammar and spelling of those that thought the Principal (_sic_) had a point, let’s not ignore the other side. [/QUOTE] Which side? Something the guy allegedly said to her friend? When and how was it reported, and was the report acted upon appropriately? Or is this just “friend of a friend, yeah me too” bullshit? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/34 "2008-02-03T18:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Let the record show that **Bambi** actually lives in the one that’s in the South 😃 [/QUOTE] If I ever see you, you’re gonna get slapped 😛 [Here is my rough approximation](http://flickr.com/photos/miketurk/2239810074/sizes/o/) of my state’s various cultural areas. There are places that don’t quite line up, such as Spring Hill in Hernando County. It’s Southern, but almost the entire population has moved down from Long Island over the last 20 years. And Tallahassee, which is in the only Panhandle county that ever goes Democrat during elections. I will not argue with anyone who claims that Florida is weird, because it is. Florida is a strange place with a lot of people from wildly varying places that don’t always get along. However, I will not let someone tell me my home is all idiot backwoods country bumpkins and racist Jim Crow holdouts and Bible-thumpin’ morons when it’s just not true. And **Happy Wanderer** , if you think that Scientology has had any sort of lasting impression on the state of Florida, you are wrong. Their headquarters have been in Clearwater for my entire life, and other than the facts that they own several buildings in downtown Clearwater and that we often see them walking between these buildings on their daily errands, they simply aren’t on the radar for most of us. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/35 "2008-02-03T18:22:12Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] I’ll give you that, but sometimes a walk-out is what’s needed. Frankly, I’ve never heard of a school walk-out (or sit-in) that wasn’t earned 150% by the school/district. [/quote] I have. They definitely happen. High school students tend to be very self-involved and protest things that offend them but are not wrong in and of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/36 "2008-02-03T19:11:56Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Yeah, but the Supreme Court was COMPLETELY WRONG in that decision. The correct decision should read: “What the fuck are you morons doing, bringing us this hinky series of double entendres and trying to pass it off as a free speech issue? Sure the kid’s speech was silly and sexually suggestive, so what? Jeebus, get a life. Case dismissed.” Same decision would apply to the Bong Hits case as well. [/QUOTE] I can’t tell if you concur in their result (i.e., if “you morons” refers to the students’ side or the schools’ side). In either event, the forum for your unsupported opinions is called “IMHO.” Regardless of what you think the correct decision should have been, the state of the law applicable to the current case is formed by what the Supreme Court actually did decide, as opposed to your belief about what they should have decided. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/37 "2008-02-03T19:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I can’t tell if you concur in their result (i.e., if “you morons” refers to the students’ side or the schools’ side). In either event, the forum for your unsupported opinions is called “IMHO.” Regardless of what you think the correct decision should have been, the state of the law applicable to the current case is formed by what the Supreme Court actually did decide, as opposed to your belief about what they should have decided. [/QUOTE] Hmmm… on second look, the correct forum for MY post above is GD, not the Pit. Sorry, withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/38 "2008-02-03T19:37:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] If I ever see you, you’re gonna get slapped 😛 [/QUOTE] Why do you think I never make it out to Florida Dopefests? I like that your mappy-thing (which is pretty good, by the way) cuts off “the South” just in time to keep your house in the purple 😛 Also, the far eastern bit of Orange and the far western bit of Brevard should definitely be “Cracker Country”. See [Bithlo](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bithlo). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/39 "2008-02-03T21:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Hmmm… on second look, the correct forum for MY post above is GD, not the Pit. Sorry, withdrawn. [/QUOTE] That’s quite all right. I should have prefaced my remark by calling you a motherfucker to alert you to the Pit location, but didn’t because I wasn’t actually mad at you in any way. (This lack of anger often limits my Pitting abilities.) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962/40 "2008-02-03T21:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Eh, Florida schmorida. It’s the panhandle, or as we Orlandoish types like to call “lower Alabama.” > [@](#): > > Yeah . . . Holmes County? Might as well be Alabama. Thaaaat’s right. Protest the guy’s bigoted comments by being bigoted assholes yourselves. Jackasses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-shouldnt-be-gay/435962.md?page=3)