# You sir are DISGUSTING! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232 "2003-01-13T02:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/141 "2003-01-14T18:55:36Z")
Let me see if I get this straight: By failing to fall in love (and perhaps getting married, bearing 2.5 children and move to a house with a picket fence) with a man that DID NOT want that, I automatically become fair game for lies and deceit. Never mind that he broke a **promise** while I kept my side of the promise. Now I get it. Thanks for clearing that out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/142 "2003-01-14T19:01:19Z")
**Mighty\_Girl** your investing to much of yourself in this thread. You need to get laid. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/143 "2003-01-14T19:07:29Z")
What the fuck? Most of the “ **M\_G** deserves what she got, so why’s she bitching about it” posts seem to be implying that the guy was justified in lying to her (or breaking his promise, same difference) because the promise was “unrealistic” (“How can you expect a guy to live up to that kind of agreement?” or whatever). I call bullshit – if the promise was unrealistic, **then he shouldn’t have made the fucking promise**. It’s not like he had a gun held to his head… Can somebody explain their reasoning to me? Am I allowed to make and break promises left and right if I decide that the promises are “unrealistic”? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/144 "2003-01-14T19:07:47Z")
It seems a lot of people are passing judgement when MG was just stating her feelings and venting. She didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion and isn’t pushing hers on anyone else. Out of all the people that posted here, I’m sure that there are an equal number of opinions on how to conduct relationships with people. Yeah, yeah, it’s the Pit and anything goes. Well, questioning someone’s integrity (as if anyone else could possible be the barometer for that) is pretty shitty, even for the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/145 "2003-01-14T19:10:07Z")
Look, we may never agree on the morals of this situation. And whether you acknowledge it or not, asserting that sex is nothing but a dry contractual transaction between “friends” _is_ introducing your own morals into this equation. I don’t see how morals can be avoided in a conundrum like this. For what it’s worth, my view is expressed pretty well by [William Kirkpatrick](http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0090.html): > [@](#): > > Sexual activity affects the kind of person we are in deep and lasting ways. The idea that one can have sex with one person after another without becoming a different person is naive, to say the least. The traditional reference to sexual intercourse as the “act of love” recognizes that it is an action that creates a bond and implies a promise. To have sex without any such intent makes one a bit of a liar. To do it over and over with numerous partners makes one a liar several times over. > > Even those with a purely “practical” approach to sex education must see the problem. As one critic of the safe-sex approach asks, “How safe is sex without character?” Increasingly less safe, it now appears. Along with condom use, one of the near universal prescriptions for safe sex is the admonition “Know your partner.” But how well can you know your partner if he or she lies? And people who lack character do lie, especially about their sexual activities. None of this is to say that you’re a bad person, **Mighty\_Girl**. But according to my world view, you may have made some foolish choices and were expecting the impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/146 "2003-01-14T19:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*I asked two questions: > > 1. Do you think you’re a woman of character? > 2. Do you feel self-respect is one of your strong attributes?\*\* This is up to her to answer, but I’m going to ask you: Do you want her to answer this based on HER judgements of a ‘good moral character’ or YOURS? There will be a difference, as I said ‘moral character’ is a subjective term. Not that anyone asked, but based on my book o’ good deeds, Mighty Girl is an upstanding person of ‘good moral character’. 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*\* > If you do not have the mental capacity to answer such questions, \*\* Ooh…look! You get to insult her again! This makes you look superior and morally correct you know. Keep on throwing those stones! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/147 "2003-01-14T19:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > None of this is to say that you’re a bad person, **Mighty\_Girl**. But according to my world view, you may have made some foolish choices and were expecting the impossible. If “impossible”, then how do you account for others who have been in similar relationships that have ended - or, indeed, are even now continuing - without trauma? How is it her expectations were impossible, when others have achieved them? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/148 "2003-01-14T19:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **Doghouse Reilly** \* > None of this is to say that you’re a bad person, **Mighty\_Girl**. Well thank you. I am glad to know that despite that I am possibly a “thief”, a person of “questionable moral character” and possibly lacking “self respect” I am not a “bad person”. On behalf of all the women (people) in the world who ever had sex withouth being romantically in love I must thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/149 "2003-01-14T19:27:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Incubus \* > \*\* > You don’t have to have _sex_ with someone just to try to get them to be/stay friends with them! \*\* Must I say it again? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/150 "2003-01-14T19:29:45Z")
Are you suggesting that I was having sex with him to keep his friendship? Then how do you explain that I never had sex with any other of my friends? Could it be that perchance you are full of crap? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/151 "2003-01-14T19:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems a lot of people are passing judgement when MG was just stating her feelings and venting. That does not give her a blank check on compassion. I think the guy was an ass, no doubt about it. But he ain’t here. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/152 "2003-01-14T19:31:33Z")
And who the FUCK is William Kirkpatrick? A guy with big-assed opinions and a platform to tell the world what they are. So fucking what! You cite him like he’s the authority on morality. If you want to talk about impossibilities, start there! ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/153 "2003-01-14T19:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Incubus \* > \*\*Must I say it again? \*\* And having sex with someone doesn’t make them NOT a friend. Friend and sexual partner are not mutually exclusive terms. So, your reason for saying this is? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/154 "2003-01-14T19:35:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty\_Girl \* > Well thank you. I am glad to know that despite that I am possibly a “thief”, a person of “questionable moral character” and possibly lacking “self respect” I am not a “bad person”. > > On behalf of all the women (people) in the world who ever had sex withouth being romantically in love I must thank you. \*\* I didn’t make those comments. And the philosophy I expressed applies at least equally strongly to men. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > How is it her expectations were impossible, when others have achieved them? Whether it really impossible, or just really really unlikely, would come down to her individual circumstances. But leaving friend of a friend successful fuck buddy legends aside, Bricker, does it really sound to you like the OP was describing a situation that could last very long without some kind of breakdown? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/155 "2003-01-14T19:36:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\*And who the FUCK is William Kirkpatrick? A guy with big-assed opinions and a platform to tell the world what they are. So fucking what! You cite him like he’s the authority on morality. If you want to talk about impossibilities, start there! \*\* I’m just saying that he summed up my philosophy on this particular issue pretty eloquently. ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/156 "2003-01-14T19:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > Look, we may never agree on the morals of this situation. And whether you acknowledge it or not, asserting that sex is nothing but a dry contractual transaction between “friends” _is_ introducing your own morals into this equation. I don’t see how morals can be avoided in a conundrum like this. If she knew that the guy was a murderer or thief or something, then she ought to have suspected that he was likely a liar as well (since he’d apparently see no problem in harming others through _one_ activity, so there’d be no expectation that he wouldn’t harm others through _another_ activity). But if the guy were a gambler or drinker or fornicator, how was she supposed to deduce that “Well, this guy engages in activities that have the potential of harming himself, so he must also engage in activities that harm others”? I don’t see the connection between fornication and lying, or (for that matter) between drinking, gambling, smoking, or skydiving and lying, so I don’t see why the morality of fornication/drinking/gambling/smoking/whatever factors into her being pissed off at being lied to. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/157 "2003-01-14T19:38:59Z")
ErisLover, I didn’t say it entitled her to boatloads of compassion. Personally, I don’t think that particular lie would destroy a friendship (for me) necessarily. But it’s not my shot to call. The fact that she has a sexual relationship with a friend (or anyone she’s not in love with) has absolutely nothing to do with her integrity. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/158 "2003-01-14T19:48:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > **Look, we may never agree on the morals of this situation. And whether you acknowledge it or not, asserting that sex is nothing but a dry contractual transaction between “friends” _is_ introducing your own morals into this equation. I don’t see how morals can be avoided in a conundrum like this.** But they are **not** “avoided”! Theirs simply aren’t the same as yours! I don’t understand what is so freaking hard to grasp about that. If you can get beyond that (that _your_ morals are NOT absolutes) you’ll see that sex between friends, per-se, has nothing to do with the original complaint put forth by the OP. She is simply complaining about a _deceptcion_ on the part of someone she considered a friend. Perhaps if you left sex out of the equation you wouldn’t have so much trouble understanding? > [@](#): > > \*\*For what it’s worth, my view is expressed pretty well by [William Kirkpatrick](http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0090.html) \*\* Well, in _my view_, that whole essay is so full of holes as to warrant its own thread. Then again, by inserting religion into this, I’m sure it’d be a pointless discussion – one that I’ve already had countless other times. \*\* > [@](#): > > None of this is to say that you’re a bad person, **Mighty\_Girl**. But according to my world view, you may have made some foolish choices and were expecting the impossible. \*\* So, you’re saying that **Mighty\_Girl** is not a “bad person,” while clearly condemning her for her choices – moral and otherwise? :rolleyes: Make up your mind and quit trying to beat around the bush (no pun intended least you accuse _me_ of injecting sex into this as well) On preview: Shit! “Injecting sex” is not supposed to be a double-entendre either. One can’t be too careful with the Moral Police patrolling this thread 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/159 "2003-01-14T19:58:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > **Look, we may never agree on the morals of this situation. And whether you acknowledge it or not, asserting that sex is nothing but a dry contractual transaction between “friends” _is_ introducing your own morals into this equation. I don’t see how morals can be avoided in a conundrum like this.** But they are **not** “avoided”! Theirs simply aren’t the same as yours! I don’t understand what is so freaking hard to grasp about that. If you can get beyond that (that _your_ morals are NOT absolutes) you’ll see that sex between friends, per-se, has nothing to do with the original complaint put forth by the OP. She is simply complaining about a _deception_ on the part of someone she considered a close friend. Perhaps if you left sex out of the equation you wouldn’t have so much trouble understanding? > [@](#): > > \*\*For what it’s worth, my view is expressed pretty well by [William Kirkpatrick](http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0090.html) \*\* Well, in _my view_, that whole essay is so full of holes as to warrant its own thread. Then again, by inserting religion into this, I’m sure it’d be a pointless discussion – one that I’ve already had countless other times. \*\* > [@](#): > > None of this is to say that you’re a bad person, **Mighty\_Girl**. But according to my world view, you may have made some foolish choices and were expecting the impossible. \*\* How can you claim to be saying that **Mighty\_Girl** is not a “bad person,” while clearly condemning her for her choices? According to the morals you – and a certain Mr. Kirkpatrick – described, she _is_ just that: a “bad person” :rolleyes: Make up your mind and quit trying to beat around the bush (no pun intended least you accuse _me_ of injecting sex into this as well) On preview: Shit! “Injecting sex” is not supposed to be a double-entendre either. One can’t be too careful with the Moral Police patrolling this thread 😉 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232/160 "2003-01-14T20:16:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mighty\_Girl \* > \*\*I think some people are all too willing to introduce their morals into this equation. If you happen to disagree with my "lifestyle: ( introduce a bigger :rolleyes: here) I kindly suggest you read the second paragraph of my book All the Things I don’t Give a Flying Fuck About. \*\* I think you’re right that a lot of people are just kind of heaping abuse on you for no reason. And I understand your situation perfectly. But I think that _some_ of us who responded to your OP are trying to tell you that maybe you should re-evaluate your lifestyle choices; not just because it’s immoral, but because the outcome of the choice you made is obviously not to your liking. You have every right to ignore people who preach to you about morals. But a lot of times, there’s a very practical reason behind the morality. What you tried to do - having a casual, unprotected sexual relationship with a friend when neither of you had strong feelings for the other - was, in my opinion, a bad idea. And not just because it’s immoral, but because trying to have such an agreement with a friend was BOUND to blow up in your face at some point. I don’t feel like you’re seeing the big picture. You keep railing against your friend for lying to you (and don’t get me wrong - he deserves every bit of it) as if he were the ONLY problem. But the bigger issue is that you settled for this unsatisfactory kind of relationship with him in the first place. I’m not going to try to psychoanalyze you in a message board, but I really get the impression that maybe you have some intimacy and/or self-esteem issues that caused you to engage in this kind of behavior. Honestly, I’m not trying to judge you - I’m just telling you my opinion, as a casual observor, as to what I think would be best for YOU. You went against conventional wisdom and morality, and now you’re complaining about the result. Of course it’s absolutely none of my business; but I can only assume that if you post this stuff on a public message board, that you are inviting people to comment. Sorry if I sound harsh - I’m just calling it as I see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-are-disgusting/148232.md?page=9)