# You-Solve-It Mafia Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636 "2007-12-11T18:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/581 "2007-12-21T13:31:56Z")
I was all for the dossier reveals when I thought that all the traits came from the truths/lie thread. I was never under the illusion that there would be obvious patterns, I was just hoping to catch someone in a lie. The scum either had figured out where the traits came from, or copied other’s very well. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/582 "2007-12-21T13:43:56Z")
[QUOTE=Kat] I found two little things: **OAOW** had an early post advocating No-Lynch and **MHaye** ’s delayed reveal of the dossier. Okay, and I’ll admit that the **Hal** / **faithfool** thing is definitely weird, but I’m used to Bastard Mods by now. 😉 I’m going to take a shower and think a bit, and then be back to vote. [/QUOTE] I still advocate it **IF** we have no strong lead. I would rather kill no-one than lynch someone randomly. However, I found MHaye’s dossier stall and questioning of Hal suspicious enough that I am happy with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/583 "2007-12-21T14:17:07Z")
I’ve waffled back and forth on this for the past 45 minutes, but: Vote MHaye I’m off to get stuck with needles now, and then do some Christmas shopping. May or may not be back before’s Day’s end. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/584 "2007-12-21T15:02:53Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Okay my suspicions are sufficiently quelled for now. Thanks 😉 unvote Hal Briston Vote Mhaye His revealed dossiers are all copies of others except one that was unique. It looks like a profile of a scum to me. [/QUOTE] (color removed) I will again argue against lynching someone solely for characteristics of their private dossier profile\*. I don’t think it is beyond the realm of probability that someone would have a profile that had items matching previously revealed dossiers. I don’t have time to do the math today, but I would expect someone’s profile to behave that way. Perhaps we should subcontract the analysis to Blaster Master inc. They are always keen on numbers over there. - others have stated behavioral reasons for voting **MHaye** , so if the dossier reason is merely in addition to other (IMO) more useful arguments, then my objection is lessened. I will not support voting someone solely due to private dossier characteristics. Augmenting an argument with private dossier reasons is less objectionable; however, I will try and ignore the dossier aspects of the argument and judge based on the non-dossier reasons. I’m having a very hard time not being a hypocrite here. I want to dismiss the dossier reasoning because I do not trust the private data. However, **Hawkeyeop’s** point about MHaye’s dossier combines very well with previous statements about MHaye’s delayed dossier reveal. i.e., not only does MHaye’s dossier have the characteristics Hawkeyeop pointed out, but his behavior supports the notion of someone taking his time to pull together a false dossier. On the other hand Hawkeyeop asserts: [QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Mhaye, on the other hand, revealed fairly early, yet had no traits that were firsts. [/QUOTE] By HockeyMonkey’s count, MHaye revealed 11th of 18. I would not label MHaye’s position “fairly early.” My vote currently stands on zuma, which was an early vote, so I should take the time to reconsider. However, I don’t yet see another candidate who is more deserving of my vote. **zuma** : Why did you organize a random approach to revealing dossiers? Why did you ignore your own random ordering and reveal your dossier early? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/585 "2007-12-21T15:14:32Z")
**Vote Mhaye** What few dimirits he’s managed to earn are the only thing I can really see to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/586 "2007-12-21T15:20:12Z")
Votecount? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/587 "2007-12-21T15:35:37Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] I will not support voting someone solely due to private dossier characteristics. Augmenting an argument with private dossier reasons is less objectionable; however, I will try and ignore the dossier aspects of the argument and judge based on the non-dossier reasons. [/QUOTE] I’m not arguing on the dossier characteristics themselves. I agree that we need to consider them completely random until there is evidence otherwise. I think it is silly to accuse individuals based on the fact that they have no uniques and things of that ilk. My analysis is rather based how scum would go about lying about dossiers, which would hold true regardless to what each individual dossier said. [QUOTE=sachertorte] On the other hand Hawkeyeop asserts: By HockeyMonkey’s count, MHaye revealed 11th of 18. I would not label MHaye’s position “fairly early.” [/QUOTE] Early is relative. 7 players had no firsts with 5 being the last 5 to present. The only two to do so earlier were Mhaye and Faithfool. I’m going to leave faithfool be at the moment, which leaves Mhaye. Still, I didn’t double check Mhaye position before I posted and agree fairly early is too strong. Relatively early then? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/588 "2007-12-21T16:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diomedes] Votecount? [/QUOTE] Sure, why not. 7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies) 2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye) 1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller) 1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast) 1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey) 12 out of 18 votes cast With 18 alive it is 10 to start the clock 12 to end the Day. The Day ends today in only a few short hours. About 5 hours left to get a majority. With no majority there will be no lynch. Go Team! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/589 "2007-12-21T16:23:40Z")
I’ve got to say that I’m not thrilled with this **MHaye** bandwagon. Not because I necessarily think he’s innocent, but it feels…lazy to me, like people are just picking the low-hanging fruit (i.e. the person who already had the most votes) because the Day is ending soon. Seems to me the main argument against is that he delayed his dossier reveal. Given that I was one of the last 5 or 6 to reveal mine, I can’t hold that against him too much. So what else is there? Can someone who is currently voting for **MHaye** please lay out the case as strongly and clearly as you can? I think that would be very beneficial. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/590 "2007-12-21T16:25:02Z")
[QUOTE=NAF1138] 7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies) 2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye) 1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller) 1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast) 1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey) 12 out of 18 votes cast [/QUOTE] **NAF** , you missed my vote for **brewha** yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/591 "2007-12-21T16:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] **NAF** , you missed my vote for **brewha** yesterday. [/QUOTE] Noted. 7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies) 2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye) 1 - brewha - (ShadowFacts) 1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller) 1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast) 1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey) 13 out of 18 votes cast ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/592 "2007-12-21T16:55:43Z")
Huh, I thought there were more votes for **Hal** than just me. Anyway, we need to have a lynch, and the case against **MHaye** is about as strong as my case against **Hal** (i.e., weak). I’ll **unvote Hal Briston** and **vote MHaye**. **MHayes** ’s Dossier reveal was both delayed and unoriginal. While he might be an unlucky Townie, being a Scum who doesn’t extemporize well is more likely. In case I don’t survive the Night, I still have suspicions about **Hal Briston** (for his implausible secret knowledge “confirming” **faith** ) and **faithfool** (for his strange “slip” and self-voting behavior). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/593 "2007-12-21T17:35:27Z")
I believe **Hal Briston** and will continue to believe him unless someone else claims secret role. I am convinced that the 7% refers to a pro-town secret role. - Secret Role because 1/14 is about 7%. - pro-town because the fraction is 1/14 (one of 14 Townies) not 1/19 (one of 19 players). **brewha** : Please explain why you accused zuma of lying about his dossier, but did not accuse Hockey Monkey of the same offense. **zuma** : Please explain why you contradict yourself in designing a random approach to revealing dossiers, but violate your own plan for reveal order. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/594 "2007-12-21T17:55:18Z")
Because it takes a majority to lynch, I’m not going to go against the flow. My only reason for doing this is because I think lynching is the best action for us to take and Mhaye is the only one that looks like might gain the majority. \*\*Unvote OAOW Vote Mhaye\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/595 "2007-12-21T18:04:52Z")
Hey, I voted for MHaye too a while back. My vote was not counted! Hanging chads! ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/596 "2007-12-21T18:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] I **brewha** : Please explain why you accused zuma of lying about his dossier, but did not accuse Hockey Monkey of the same offense. [/QUOTE] I found some of **Hockey Monkey** ’s traits on the other thread. I found none of **Zuma** ’s. As the day wore on, I found other people posting the same traits as **Zuma** and even found some of **Zuma** ’s traits on the other thread. But, since I’d already called him out, I wanted to wait and see what his response was. Instead, I got several people telling me that my theory was bunk and so I gave up before I even heard his response. Before I recanted my FOS, I had made up my mind that **Zuma** ’s dossier wasn’t going to prove he was scum. But, I was going to give him the chance to incriminate himself. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/597 "2007-12-21T18:15:59Z")
Counting my vote for **MHaye** and also **Hockey Monkey** ’s vote, he now has 9. So we only need…is it one more person(?)? How many people are now in the game? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/598 "2007-12-21T18:19:24Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] Counting my vote for **MHaye** and also **Hockey Monkey** ’s vote, he now has 9. So we only need…is it one more person(?)? How many people are now in the game? [/QUOTE] Aren’t we at 10? I think you are missing Pleo. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/599 "2007-12-21T18:21:18Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] I’ve got to say that I’m not thrilled with this **MHaye** bandwagon. Not because I necessarily think he’s innocent, but it feels…lazy to me, like people are just picking the low-hanging fruit (i.e. the person who already had the most votes) because the Day is ending soon. Seems to me the main argument against is that he delayed his dossier reveal. Given that I was one of the last 5 or 6 to reveal mine, I can’t hold that against him too much. So what else is there? Can someone who is currently voting for **MHaye** please lay out the case as strongly and clearly as you can? I think that would be very beneficial. Thanks! [/QUOTE] I’ll leave the strong and clear case for voting MHaye to another, but I will say that there’s a difference between ‘lazy’ voting, and realizing that there’s no option other than lynching MHaye and an inadvertant no-lynch. I don’t have a perfect case for lynching MHaye, but I will say that he seems scummer than most. Because of that, I’d rather lynch him and see where that gets us rather than no-lynch, and give the scum yet another day to pick our numbers off without giving us a chance to respond. I still think faithfool would be a better lynch today, but it ain’t happening at this late hour. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/600 "2007-12-21T18:26:33Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Aren’t we at 10? I think you are missing Pleo. [/QUOTE] Yup, we are at 10 votes. Thanks for helping me find your vote FS. 2 more votes for MHaye will end the Day instantly. Otherwise we ride it out for the next 3 hours and 5 minutes. (technically we are in the 12 hours countdown, but the Day will end before the countdown would so I firgure, why confuse you, right? Right!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=31)