# You-Solve-It Mafia Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636 "2007-12-11T18:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/821 "2008-01-05T20:53:11Z")
Although I see the points made for and against those who’ve been mentioned, I guess I still can’t get past the fact that Dio’s behavior comes across as the most egregious. So that said and lacking any more belief in other’s wrong doing-ness, I’m voting that way. **Vote Dio** ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/822 "2008-01-05T21:05:17Z")
You realize that if 8 people don’t vote for the same person, we don’t get a lynch right? People, put your grudges aside for a little while and let’s see if we can get a concensus vote. Not lynching is just not a good option, and anyone with a throw-away vote at the end of the day is going to get a hairy eyeball from me. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/823 "2008-01-05T21:27:19Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] You realize that if 8 people don’t vote for the same person, we don’t get a lynch right? People, put your grudges aside for a little while and let’s see if we can get a concensus vote. Not lynching is just not a good option, and anyone with a throw-away vote at the end of the day is going to get a hairy eyeball from me. [/QUOTE] So far now it seems like it’s either lynch **brewha** or lynch no one. What I dislike about the majority rule is that I feel like I’m voting for someone just because it’s pragmatic and we need to make some kind of progress. Joining the bandwagon is just that much easier. I’m willing to change my vote if it’s really out there and a stupid vote, but I do think that this system makes it a little tougher on us. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/824 "2008-01-05T21:35:36Z")
I know majority rule sucks sometimes, but that is the ruleset we are playing in. It’s part of the game dynamic. Would it be fairer for \*\*brewha \*\* to get lynched with only 3 votes? Not really. There are pros and cons to the system. If anyone brings a valid case for someone else to be lynched today, I’m all ears. Voting for someone because they are annoying you is anti-town. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/825 "2008-01-05T21:36:15Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] You realize that if 8 people don’t vote for the same person, we don’t get a lynch right? People, put your grudges aside for a little while and let’s see if we can get a concensus vote. Not lynching is just not a good option, and anyone with a throw-away vote at the end of the day is going to get a hairy eyeball from me. [/QUOTE] Now let me see if I understand you correctly… you encouraged us to vote because the hour is growing late. I laid out my reasons for why I was behaving thusly and in essence said I couldn’t vote for anyone else in good conscience. I have no grudge against **Dio** whatsoever. I honestly believe his approach signals disgruntledness. I didn’t think it would be fair to back the majority just to cement a lynch. Especially when I’m not completely convinced of the evidence thus far. Or does that not matter? ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/826 "2008-01-05T21:38:20Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] For all the reasons I have previously mentioned, along with his desire to point the finger at anyone and everyone, without backing up his opinions with evidence or a vote. [/QUOTE] Wait…What?!? My desire to point the finger at anyone and everyone? That’s just BS. I did point the finger at **Zuma** at the beginning of the game just to get conversation going and to see his reaction. I offered a situation where my dossier doesn’t look so scummy, but I never FOS, accused or voted for **Pleonast**. By my count - and I’m no mathematician - that brings the grand total to 1. Hardly anyone and everyone. And I really don’t like your tendency to put words in my mouth. unvote Kat vote Hawkeyeop ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/827 "2008-01-05T21:41:15Z")
[QUOTE=faithfool] Now let me see if I understand you correctly… you encouraged us to vote because the hour is growing late. I laid out my reasons for why I was behaving thusly and in essence said I couldn’t vote for anyone else in good conscience. I have no grudge against **Dio** whatsoever. I honestly believe his approach signals disgruntledness. I didn’t think it would be fair to back the majority just to cement a lynch. Especially when I’m not completely convinced of the evidence thus far. Or does that not matter? [/QUOTE] Sometimes it’s better to go with the majority to get the goal accomplished. Fair? No. Necessary? Yes. > [@faithfool](#): > > Although I see the points made for and against those who’ve been mentioned, I guess I still can’t get past the fact that Dio’s behavior comes across as the most egregious. So that said and lacking any more belief in other’s wrong doing-ness, I’m voting that way. This is your _case_? What exactly is \*\*Dio’s \*\* egregious behavior? Voting for you? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/828 "2008-01-05T21:44:40Z")
Okay, then. In the interests of putting this to bed on time and actually having a lynch of someone who may be scum as opposed to a no lynch, I’m going to change my vote. **brewha** has seemed suspect, but I can’t tell if it’s out of true scumminess. But like you, **Hockey** , I’d like something to happen. I don’t want to just throw out a meaningless vote that I believe but that will get us nowhere. \*\*unvote faithfool vote brewha\*\* ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/829 "2008-01-05T21:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Sometimes it’s better to go with the majority to get the goal accomplished. Fair? No. Necessary? Yes. [/QUOTE] I disagree, otherwise we’ll have a really hyper sped up game with a ludicrous outcome. > [@](#): > > This is your _case_? What exactly is \*\*Dio’s \*\* egregious behavior? Voting for you? Never mind. After having gone round and round with **Dio** , I have no desire to get into doing that with you or anyone else. I explained myself already and I apologize if that’s not good enough. My vote for him is at least that much more concrete than how I feel about any of the others thus far. I have no grudge, but you’re more than welcome to use that as my excuse. Think of me and my decision as you will. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/830 "2008-01-05T21:52:13Z")
Brewha, You claim to never point a finger at anyone except Zuma in a post that you unvote Kat. Consistent your logic is not. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/831 "2008-01-05T22:10:42Z")
[QUOTE=faithfool] I disagree, otherwise we’ll have a really hyper sped up game with a ludicrous outcome. [/quote] 😕 How do you think that? I’ve played a couple of games with this rule-set and it has never resulted in hyper-speed. > [@](#): > > Never mind. After having gone round and round with **Dio** , I have no desire to get into doing that with you or anyone else. I explained myself already and I apologize if that’s not good enough. My vote for him is at least that much more concrete than how I feel about any of the others thus far. I have no grudge, but you’re more than welcome to use that as my excuse. Think of me and my decision as you will. I think you are taking your interaction with \*\*Dio \*\* too personally. He hasn’t acted any differently toward you than he has anyone else he ever thought was scum. This is only a game. Part of this game is being called a liar and having to defend yourself…no matter what side you are on. The only person you can trust is yourself. It’s a breeding ground for paranoia. If you have crappy logic, you are going to get called on the carpet for it. If you have great logic, you are going to get called on the carpet for it. It’s just a freaking game, **faithfool**. Nobody thinks any differently of you as a person because of this thread. Now please quit being a martyr and bring some logic to the table to support your vote. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/832 "2008-01-05T22:20:40Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] 😕 How do you think that? I’ve played a couple of games with this rule-set and it has never resulted in hyper-speed. [/QUOTE] It’s not, in my humble opinion, the rule-set that’s the problem but the response it garners. However, I have no idea what I’m doing, so I’m sure I’m wrong. > [@](#): > > I think you are taking your interaction with \*\*Dio \*\* too personally. He hasn’t acted any differently toward you than he has anyone else he ever thought was scum. This is only a game. Part of this game is being called a liar and having to defend yourself…no matter what side you are on. The only person you can trust is yourself. It’s a breeding ground for paranoia. If you have crappy logic, you are going to get called on the carpet for it. If you have great logic, you are going to get called on the carpet for it. It’s just a freaking game, **faithfool**. Nobody thinks any differently of you as a person because of this thread. Now please quit being a martyr and bring some logic to the table to support your vote. Nobody is saying any of that but YOU. As I’m certain I’ll end up doing ad nauseum, I have no grudge (read: take nothing personally) against **Dio**. From what I’ve experienced, I feel his behavior is the norm. Regardless of the atmosphere engendered by the game or not, we can only base our perceptions on that which we believe. _I_ believe, independently of what I’ve been called to the carpet on, that his actions have been suspicious. That has nothing to do with how I view him as a poster. Which I’m sure he’s a fine bloke. All that said, it does _sound_ personal to be accused of being a martyr. However, you surely wouldn’t stoop to such a thing so I’ll file that under the same category as my interactions with **Dio** , just part of the proceedings. Finally, in support of my theories, you can take what I’ve posited or not. I fail to see how I cast my vote (thought out to the best of my limited ability) is any worse, for lack of a better word, than someone who hasn’t participated at all. I’m trying. I don’t know what else to do. faithfool~ [re-considering sending out her martyr application] ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/833 "2008-01-06T02:37:18Z")
Apologies for my quietness. It’s mainly that, people are tossing out accusations, and I’m left going “Bwah?” and deciding to hold off, come back later and reread. **sachertorte** ’s analysis against **brewha** , for one example. Going back and rereading the posts that **sach** quoted in context, I didn’t have much difficulty figuring out that **brewha** must have meant the “2 Truths and a Lie” thread when he talked about finding dossier traits in the “other thread”. But does that mean **sach** is deliberately trying to spin **brewha** ’s post in its worst light, or does that mean that I was just better at picking out the meaning (or maybe it means that **brewha** has manged to pull the wool over my eyes)? I feel like I’m straggling along without a map. I think I suck at this game. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/834 "2008-01-06T03:06:40Z")
I agree wholeheartedly with **Kat**. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/835 "2008-01-06T05:38:35Z")
At least you have the excuse of being a first-timer. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/836 "2008-01-06T05:43:35Z")
Christ, I’m tired. I tried to re-read and didn’t come up with much. One thing that did strike me was **ShadowFacts** ’ death. **ShadowFacts** was riding **brewha** every day. [Here’s his case from Day 1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9292339&postcount=547). Is this a case of a silent pig silencing his biggest critic? The hell if I know, but I can’t see any other reason for **ShadowFacts** to be killed and I don’t see anything stronger against anybody else. **Vote brewha** BTW - I’ll be traveling tomorrow, so this is likely my last post before Nightfall. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/837 "2008-01-06T13:54:27Z")
Phond post sorry. i do not like this brewha pile on at all. his explanations make sense. the votes for hhm do not. i will not vote to lynch yet another noisy townie. more tommorow. i have no brackets. someone allerert naf that i vote faithfool if i dont get to a computer in time. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/838 "2008-01-06T14:17:51Z")
Vote faithfool ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/839 "2008-01-06T14:31:37Z")
Quick hit thoughts for the moment, bearing in mind that this is coming from someone who took three hundred words to reach a totally erroneous conclusion in his very last effort: 1. I have continuing suspicions regarding **brewha** , for the reasons outlined in my last post. There _has_ been a bit of a pile-on, especially recently, but that does not mean he is not scum. 2. My biggest suspicion right now is of **Diomedes** , who triggered my radar early in the game. Once again, my very long post will explain my subsequent reasons. I am especially interested in the fact that no one has really picked up on my various nudges in the direction of **Diomedes**. If he were a regular associate, I would expect the Disgruntledites to jump on my genuine suspicion and use it as a basis for their own false suspicions - the better to help spread suspicion to as many people as possible. No one has done so. All the same, at this point I think a vote for **Dio** is a vote for no-lynch, in practice. I’m not sure about the wisdom of that yet. More in a moment. Meanwhile… 1. **Hockey Monkey** has pinged me a great deal in the last page or so. First of all, her approach seems designed to bully players into bussing **brewha**. She’s encouraging not voting for the person one thinks is most likely to be scum, but for the person favored by the majority - coincidentally, the person for whom her own vote has been placed. I think that kind of trying to force an unnatural outcome can be scummy. More, though, her aggressive defense of **Diomedes** seems off to me, somehow. She’s defending him with a kind of vigor I wouldn’t use unless I were sure the object of my defense were clean - a certainty she could only have in this game if she is scum herself. So I’m puzzled here, and I’m thinking. The way this game is designed, a _one-time only_ no lynch will not hurt us, and _will_ help us. After Night One, we began with 18 players, 5 scum (so 13 Regular Associates). That gave us four mislynches to work with: hypothetically, we mislynch Day One (12-5), there’s a Night Kill Night Two (11-5), mislynch Day Two (10-5), Night Kill Night Three (9-5), mislynch Day Three (8-5), Night Kill Night Four (7-5), mislynch Day Four (6-5), Night Kill Night Five (5-5, and game over). Now imagine that, in the scum best case scenario outlined above, we had chosen to no-lynch Day One. Now things are different: after Day One it’s (13-5), after Night Kill Night Two (12-5), after mislynch Day Two (11-5), after Night Kill Night Three (10-5), after mislynch Day Three (9-5), after Night Kill Night Four (8-5), after mislynch Day Four (7-5), after Night Kill Night Five (6-5). In this scenario, we would _still_ need to mislynch one more time in order to lose. Thus, inserting one no-lynch into the process does not change our situation in the least - we _still_ have exactly four mislynches with which to work. Ordinarily, no-lynching would be problematic because we’d wake the next morning with no additional information. But in this case, if we no lynch on a Day when we are not comfortable with a consensus target, we will get a little extra info (dossier info) tomorrow Morning. Now, we can only use this tactic _once_ - a second no-lynch actually shortens the game in favor of the scum. But if we are having enough trouble deciding on a target that we’re still struggling with a majority this late in the Day, it is _clearly_ to our benefit to lynch no one rather than to toss someone off the cliff nearly at random and hope we get it right. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/840 "2008-01-06T15:31:40Z")
i went tn top dog when i was in berkeley last night. it was incrdibly delicious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=43)