# You-Solve-It Mafia Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636 "2007-12-11T18:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/901 "2008-01-09T21:02:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Because you are oblivious. Or because I actually bothered to fill out my profile (well at least the location part) 5 minutes ago. One of the two. [/QUOTE] Or **Both**! ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/902 "2008-01-09T21:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Well, I’m pissed about yesterday’s events. I’m waiting for Kat’s death scene so I can update the dossier sheet. [/QUOTE] I’m disappointed at how Yesterday ended too. We were screwed by a short day that mostly fell over the weekend, and we lost a day when we didn’t notice that the Day should end on Monday until Sunday’s premature end of day. On top of that **Diomedes** was unavailable, and **HazelNutCoffee** is missing. So to Lynch yesterday we needed 8 of 12 (available) players. That’s a pretty steep majority (66%). So needing a super-majority and having a crazy short and time-challenged Day made the lynch that much harder. Hopefully Today will work out better. We absolutely can’t afford another no-lynch. No-lynching from this point on is **functionally equivalent to lynching a townie**. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/903 "2008-01-09T21:40:44Z")
I’m also still waiting for an explaination from \*\*Hal \*\* on the FOS he leveled at me. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/904 "2008-01-09T21:48:33Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] **story** put the no-lynch option out there for consideration. But I find it strange that he didn’t vote at all or definitively state that he was withholding his vote to prevent a lynch. Did he really think no one was worth voting for? Did he ultimately decide that a no-lynch was better than lynching **brewha**? [/quote] Happy to explain, although the explanation, I’m afraid, is both prosaic and unlikely to satisfy: I missed the portion of **NAF** ’s post specifying the deadline, and thought I had more time to consider and discuss than I actually had. > [@](#): > > Actions speak louder than words, and a non-vote in a lynch that failed due to lack of votes is very anti-Town. Strongly disagree. No individual player should be voting for anyone, unless he believes the object of the vote to be most likely, or at least likely, to be scum. If townies vote for other reasons, then they are voting for _artificial_ reasons, which makes it harder to identify the scum (who are also voting for artificial reasons). Which is a short way of saying that no one should be bullied into voting in a particular way. We must be held individually accountable for our votes, and suggesting that players have a responsibility to vote in a particular way - even if it doesn’t reflect their own feelings at the time - eliminates the individual accountability and allows easy escape from association with your vote. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/905 "2008-01-09T21:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Happy to explain, although the explanation, I’m afraid, is both prosaic and unlikely to satisfy: I missed the portion of **NAF** ’s post specifying the deadline, and thought I had more time to consider and discuss than I actually had. [/QUOTE] When did you think the Day ended? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/906 "2008-01-09T22:04:00Z")
And now some housekeeping from late yesterDay: [QUOTE=Pleonast] It’s silly to think that **NAF** meant _only_ those roles are excluded. [/quote] That’s certainly a valid opinion, but it’s one with which I strongly disagree. It is very dangerous to read anything into what a moderator writes in the color other than _what the moderator wrote into the color_. My own experience designing a game is pretty fresh - in every case, I wrote _exactly_ what I meant, fully aware that in some cases my words would mislead those who tried to read into them. When I wanted something to be explicit, I said it explicitly. > [@](#): > > But if **Hal** is scum, you’re handing the game to him. Fair enough. But you want us to hang him - and burn one of the two mislynches we still have to play with - based on _nothing_ other than _your_ interpretation of a rule you didn’t write. That’s not particularly convincing. > [@](#): > > What does that mean? Scum will do _anything_, and a skilled Scum player will sound indistinguishable from the rest of us. Please note: I did not refer to your _behavior_ as indistinguishable from that of scum; I referred to your approach in that way. Look, scum can behave any way they want. They can vote for one another or vote for us, they can spread their votes or they can keep them tightly packed, they can be aggressive or they can lurk. All of these things, in and of themselves, are useless at finding scum, because the scum are just as likely to do one as the other. There is only one thing that differentiates scum from the town - their approach to the game. Scum have an agenda. They are not earnestly attempting to identify the player most likely to be scum and vote for him or her. Their approach is artificial - they begin with the outcome they want, and work toward it. The outcome they pursue might vary (one day, they might want to cause a town lynch, another day, they might want to bus one of their own), and the methods they use certainly will, but ultimately they differ from town in that town (ideally) do not go into the day with a desired outcome (beyond the general - “lynch scum”). Town (ideally) are reactive. They look at facts and try to make determinations from them. The minute a townie gets an agenda - decides that so-and-so must be scum, because my “instincts tell me so,” and facts be damned - that townie becomes indinstiguishable from scum, because he or she is starting from a conclusion and turning the facts to fit it. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/907 "2008-01-09T22:07:54Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] When did you think the Day ended? [/QUOTE] Didn’t really know. At some point, **NAF1138** said that the Day would be ending “tomorrow morning,” but no specific time was given. He did post a warning post an hour before the deadline, but it was at the bottom of a page and I was in the middle of a pretty spirited exchange with **Pleonast** at the time, so I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/908 "2008-01-09T22:10:17Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] **Mods need to bump Hazel** [/quote] Hazel has been given a prod, and she should be back to posting in about 24 hours or so. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/909 "2008-01-09T22:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] No individual player should be voting for anyone, unless he believes the object of the vote to be most likely, or at least likely, to be scum. If townies vote for other reasons, then they are voting for _artificial_ reasons, which makes it harder to identify the scum (who are also voting for artificial reasons). Which is a short way of saying that no one should be bullied into voting in a particular way. We must be held individually accountable for our votes, and suggesting that players have a responsibility to vote in a particular way - even if it doesn’t reflect their own feelings at the time - eliminates the individual accountability and allows easy escape from association with your vote. [/QUOTE] I agree that no one should vote for anyone they think is unlikely to be Scum. But we need to be aware of the effects of our voting, too. **brewha** was low on my list of suspicious players. But the case made against him seems plausible and I’d rather lynch someone who’s low on my list than no one at all. Those who didn’t vote for **brewha** , by not voting for him, were implicitly saying he is not suspicious enough to lynch and a no-lynch is preferable. Those who didn’t vote at all didn’t even offer an alternative. I’d like to hear from those who didn’t vote for **brewha** why they thought a no-lynch was a better option. We had one no-lynch to burn, so it wasn’t not a huge mistake. But now our margin for error is that much smaller. About **Hal** : he’s high on my suspicion list. I am certainly happy to vote for and lynch him. Others may not be. But I think it’s a huge mistake to remove him from consideration. Just keep your mind open. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/910 "2008-01-09T22:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] We ended up with no lynch by default, not by conscious decision. This makes me suspicious of the non-voters, **story** and **Hazel** , and the singleton voter, **brewha**. **story** put the no-lynch option out there for consideration. But I find it strange that he didn’t vote at all or definitively state that he was withholding his vote to prevent a lynch. Did he really think no one was worth voting for? Did he ultimately decide that a no-lynch was better than lynching **brewha**? Actions speak louder than words, and a non-vote in a lynch that failed due to lack of votes is very anti-Town. Please explain your lack of a vote, **story**. Same applies to **Hazel**. But she’s hardly played. When was her last post? **Mods need to bump Hazel**. Lurking Scum or AWOL Townie? Impossible to tell at this point. Please post _something_, **Hazel**. Can’t blame **brewha** for not bringing his lynch vote to the required quorum. 😉 But singleton votes are not especially useful. Please feel free to vote for whoever you find most likely to be Scum. But when it comes down to wire, we need to lynch. Move your singleton vote to someplace more useful. [/QUOTE] I can see your point that in most cases singleton votes are not especially useful. But, I was under the impression that I would indeed be chucked off the cliff yesterday. When my death scene revealed me to be innocent, I wanted the rest of the associates to know where my strongest suspicions were. On two different occasions, **Hawkeyeop** twisted my words around to make me sound guilty - took what I said and exaggerated points to try and sway the vote toward me. That is dishonest play and pretty scummy if you ask me. I don’t know what to think about **Faithfool**. I’m hoping to get a more substantial read as the game progresses. I don’t see anything particularly scummy about **Dio** and I certainly wasn’t going to vote for myself. So, I was left with a singular vote. In the situation I was in, I had no other choice. I don’t see how that would make you any more suspicious of me. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/911 "2008-01-09T22:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] I’m also still waiting for an explaination from \*\*Hal \*\* on the FOS he leveled at me. [/QUOTE] First, it was the bit about putting “gebackenes” into various search engines. You wasted no time in FOSing me there – although you did un-FOS as soon as I pointed out what really happened ([Page 16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447411&page=16&pp=50), if anyone is interested). Ok, no big deal there. What really set me to thinking you’ve got it out for me was that you then turned around and tossed out this one: [QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] You see the case against **brewha** , yet vote \*\*Kat \*\* based on nothing more than lurking? That just smacks of scummy opportunism. [/QUOTE] That would be a perfectly valid question, except you only used half the sentence. What I _really_ said was: [QUOTE=Hal Briston] As for **brewha** …sigh…I see the case, but as he mentioned, it just smacks of him being hunted because he’s one of the most vocal ones out there. [/QUOTE] …as in, “I see what is making people go after him, but I don’t think I buy it”. That brings me around to the standard WIFOM – I know I’m town, so your attacks seem scummy. Problem is, the more I think about it, the more I can see town reacting the way you are…argh…tell me again why I enjoy this game so much? And just to put in my $0.02 on another issue – **Pleonast** , let it go. The one, single bonus dossier was the entire secret. Please stop trying to make more out of it than it really was… ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/912 "2008-01-09T23:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] [QUOTE=storyteller0910] Strongly disagree. No individual player should be voting for anyone, unless he believes the object of the vote to be most likely, or at least likely, to be scum. If townies vote for other reasons, then they are voting for _artificial_ reasons, which makes it harder to identify the scum (who are also voting for artificial reasons). Which is a short way of saying that no one should be bullied into voting in a particular way. We must be held individually accountable for our votes, and suggesting that players have a responsibility to vote in a particular way - even if it doesn’t reflect their own feelings at the time - eliminates the individual accountability and allows easy escape from association with your vote. [/QUOTE] I agree that no one should vote for anyone they think is unlikely to be Scum. But we need to be aware of the effects of our voting, too. **brewha** was low on my list of suspicious players. But the case made against him seems plausible and I’d rather lynch someone who’s low on my list than no one at all. Those who didn’t vote for **brewha** , by not voting for him, were implicitly saying he is not suspicious enough to lynch and a no-lynch is preferable. Those who didn’t vote at all didn’t even offer an alternative. I’d like to hear from those who didn’t vote for **brewha** why they thought a no-lynch was a better option. We had one no-lynch to burn, so it wasn’t not a huge mistake. But now our margin for error is that much smaller. About **Hal** : he’s high on my suspicion list. I am certainly happy to vote for and lynch him. Others may not be. But I think it’s a huge mistake to remove him from consideration. Just keep your mind open. [/QUOTE] **Pleonast** , if you knew what I know, you would be laughing as hard as I am right now. Your argument is that **Storytellor** ’s advice is wrong because other people convinced you that I am guilty. But, since I am not guilty, your argument is completely hilarious. I went from low on your list of suspicious players to guilty in your mind based on arguments that others – who could be scum – made. You may not find it funny now, but after my death – or after the game is over (if I survive that long) you should. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/913 "2008-01-09T23:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] On two different occasions, Hawkeyeop twisted my words around to make me sound guilty - took what I said and exaggerated points to try and sway the vote toward me. That is dishonest play and pretty scummy if you ask me. I don’t know what to think about Faithfool. I’m hoping to get a more substantial read as the game progresses. I don’t see anything particularly scummy about Dio and I certainly wasn’t going to vote for myself. So, I was left with a singular vote. In the situation I was in, I had no other choice. I don’t see how that would make you any more suspicious of me. [/QUOTE] As I explained at the end of my post, I don’t find you extra suspicious because of how you voted, but I wanted to point out that a singleton vote is something to look at. [QUOTE=brewha] **Pleonast** , if you knew what I know, you would be laughing as hard as I am right now. Your argument is that Storytellor’s advice is wrong because other people convinced you that I am guilty. [/quote] And now I’m laughing because I was agreeing with **story**. I guess I’m not a great communicator. :smack: You were (and still are) low on my list of suspicion. That means I’ll vote for others before you, as I did yesterDay. But if I have to choose between voting for someone low on my list and not lynching anyone, I’ll choose the former. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/914 "2008-01-10T03:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=Pleonast] As I explained at the end of my post, I don’t find you extra suspicious because of how you voted, but I wanted to point out that a singleton vote is something to look at.And now I’m laughing because I was agreeing with **story**. I guess I’m not a great communicator. :smack: You were (and still are) low on my list of suspicion. That means I’ll vote for others before you, as I did yesterDay. But if I have to choose between voting for someone low on my list and not lynching anyone, I’ll choose the former. [/QUOTE] You’re not a great communicator or I"m not a great reader. I’m guessing the latter. I just assumed that you had voted for me on the previous day without going back and looking. I really need to be more careful with what I assume. ::checks this time before posting:: Ah now I see what you mean. You voted for others (faithfool) first, but were persuaded to vote for me because you chose a lynch over voting for someone who you thought was scummy. Personally, I think it’d be a better strategy to make a case against who you think is scum and try to get others to follow you, then to just follow someone for the sake of a lynch. I’m willing to bet that at least one person that was crusading against me yesterday is scum. Following their lead is a good way to lose this game. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/915 "2008-01-10T04:15:37Z")
Um, so this is what happened - after New Year’s I completely forgot that the game was still going on. I did not realize this until **NAF** sent me a message yesterday. There are not enough :smack: in the world. Bear with me, I’m trying to catch up. I’ll try to post again tonight - tomorrow morning at the latest. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/916 "2008-01-10T05:00:03Z")
Well… rereading my belated post from yesterDay, it’s both my response to **Kat** and to **storyteller** : essentially, I found enough evidence to convince me that **faithfool** is Disgruntled on Day One, and lacking any sort of provable power roles in this game, I don’t see any way I’m going to be persuaded otherwise: errors she made on Day One have probably already been corrected by her fellow scum after the first Day, so the fact that she’s not raised any particular flags doesn’t mean much. The fact that she hasn’t really participated much in anything other than responding to me gives little further evidence that she might be town. I don’t see the case against **brewha**. If I’d come back earlier, I probably would have voted for him, just to get a lynch in. No-lynches always feel like a pro-scum result for a Day, even if (as **story** (I think) described), a no-lynch yesterday doesn’t change our timeline other than giving the remaining Disgruntleds a bigger voice in our lynches. However, **brewha** ’s miscues don’t seem to be any bigger than any regular townie might make: consistency isn’t a given in this game, particularly from townie players. And a vocal townie is going to be inconsistent eventually. I’m starting to get a little suspicious of **Hal** , merely because his ‘secret’ doesn’t seem like it would be enough of a change in the game to be the “Secret” promised in the beginning of the game. It just doesn’t feel big enough to be included if being given a single random dossier was all it was. I’m entirely open to changing my vote to another player, if given enough reason to do so. But for now, I’m still going to **vote: faithfool** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/917 "2008-01-10T05:17:26Z")
It’s that time again. You are starting to get that old familiar tingle. That’s right, it’s another vision! > [@a very dead Kat](#): > > I’ve never been accused of having heaps of common sense, so I suppose that explains why I didn’t spend the night in my room with the door locked and a chair jammed under the knob. The day had been pretty uneventful (for once), so I wasn’t much tired and took the chance on sneaking out of the cloisters where our rooms were and into the martial arts studio. If anyone had asked, I might have claimed that I was in the market for a little bit of extra “security” for the night, but really, I just wanted to look at all the shiny, pretty, sharp things. > > Ooooo, shiny… > > The room was empty when I got there, and I didn’t hear anyone come in behind me, so I literally jumped when I heard the voice right behind me. > > A voice that I recognized. > > A voice that I had also heard in a vision, speaking to **ShadowFacts** about gebackenes. > > Whatever gebackenes is… > > I didn’t dwell on that very long, being distracted by the chill of terror that crawled up my spine as I listened. > > “I’ve finally found something I enjoy more than Fahrvergnügen. Murder.” is what the voice said. And I can’t swear to it, but I could almost hear the pause that followed, as if the person were loading a signature file, and then the last thing I heard was a cheery “Thanks!”, right before I felt the sharp pain in my back. As I blacked out, I saw the tip of the gorram blade that would soon kill me protruding out of my chest. > > I think it was a katana, but then again, I watch too many old Highlander episodes. > > Wow, I guess it figures that my last thought was bizarre like that. Go Team! ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/918 "2008-01-10T05:33:35Z")
More Volkswagens? ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/919 "2008-01-10T05:35:00Z")
Fahrvergnügen = vw bus thing again? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636/920 "2008-01-10T05:44:10Z")
I once drove a VW Bug through the front door of a 7/11: OAOW Hockey Monkey Just them two. And OAOW is dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-solve-it-mafia-game/429636.md?page=47)