# You steal a camera during MY Workshop? Fuck you, you piece of messed-up shit ! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223 "2010-07-19T14:22:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/261 "2010-07-27T16:15:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, it _affects_ cognition, but that’s not the same as _impairing_ it. Since it does not impair the ability to perform tasks, I don’t see how it can be said to impair cognition. I would argue that it _enhances_ cognition. > > You guys sound like you believe everything you saw in those videos that your health teachers showed you in 8th grade. Do you also think that people who smoke pot “freak out” and jump off buildings thinking they can fly? I bet you do. > > Anyone who’s actually been a chronic stoner or been around them knows that being stoned has no more effect on their driving ability than a cup of coffee. I’ve even driven on acid. No problems at all except I had to keep reminding myself that I was really driving and I wasn’t in a video game. Easy there, Evidence. I wasn’t kidding when I said I was high last night. I loooooooove marijuana. I’m a NORML Citizen. I’m saving to buy a vaporizer. I’d love to see marijuana legalized, and think it’s ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol is legal. I’m well versed in the literature. But in post #17, you said marijuana doesn’t affect (not impair, not enhance, but affect) cognitive skills. Full stop. You should have know that statement itself was stupid enough to bring everyone howling out of the woodwork, never mind the “I am my own cite” crap later on. So, are you still going to stick by the statement that you do not believe that pot affects one’s cognitive abilities and fine and gross motor skills? (BTW, I would like to petition the mods to change Dio’s status to Evidence. I will pay for a full year of his membership. At any rate, I am herewith pledging to call him **Diogenes the Evidence** for the rest of my stay on the board.) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/262 "2010-07-27T16:16:00Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Of course it affects one’s cognition; we wouldn’t fucking buy it otherwise! > > What we are saying is that it doesn’t affect driving ability in any way that should legislated, if it can’t be proven to be a factor in accidents. Even if we were to grant the veracity of your statement, **Dio** ’s claim went far, far beyond that, and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/263 "2010-07-27T16:17:50Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > OK, now he’s just fucking with us. “Now”? 🙂 And, I’d totally watch that. I see the theme music as that circus song, doot doot dodedodedoot doot doo doo. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/264 "2010-07-27T16:17:51Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Anyone who’s actually been a chronic stoner or been around them knows that being stoned has no more effect on their driving ability than a cup of coffee. > > :dubious: > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > Pot can and does definitely inhibit performance. > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > I’ve definitely been too stoned to think. > > > [@pulykamell](#): > > > > You definitely would not want to be with me in a car if I were high. The one time I drove stoned–just to back the car out of the driveway to let someone out–I had to ask someone else to finish doing it, because I just did not have the spatial awareness to accomplish the task. > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > I have plenty of past experience with cannabis and with driving, and I never had an accident while driving stoned. > > > > On the other hand, I also know that, in my experience, smoking weed certainly did impair my ability to drive a car. > > > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > > > Ok, my post as my cite. From my limited use of medical grade pot: > > **Hit #1** : nothing > > **Hit #2** : buzzed, a little dizzy > > **Hit #3** : high, I really like colored lights, have to concentrate in order to walk, I won’t remember this tomorrow > > **Hit #4** : Fucked up, can’t walk in a straight line, can’t pour water into a glass without considerable effort, TV seems to be in half-second stop action, can’t follow a movie anyway, don’t remember anything from 15 minutes ago. > > > [@Frank](#): > > > > The idea that being high does not interfere with driving is bullshit. > > > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > > > This was pretty much my whole reaction, too. > > > [@Malthus](#): > > > > There comes a point, as anyone who has smoked a lot of weed ought to know, where one is simply too stoned to ‘compensate’ any more. Hell, I’ve been too stoned to walk to the door, let alone drive! 😃 > > > [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > > > “There is no impairment while driving under the influence of cannabis” is an indefensibly stupid position to take. > > Shut the fuck up. Honestly. Anecodtes are not evidence.The actual empirical data shows that driving stoned does not increase tthe risk for accidents. There’s no way out of that box. That’s a checkmate for me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/265 "2010-07-27T16:20:06Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Yes, it _affects_ cognition, but that’s not the same as _impairing_ it. Since it does not impair the ability to perform tasks, I don’t see how it can be said to impair cognition. I would argue that it _enhances_ cognition. > > > > You guys sound like you believe everything you saw in those videos that your health teachers showed you in 8th grade. Do you also think that people who smoke pot “freak out” and jump off buildings thinking they can fly? I bet you do. > > > > Anyone who’s actually been a chronic stoner or been around them knows that being stoned has no more effect on their driving ability than a cup of coffee. I’ve even driven on acid. No problems at all except I had to keep reminding myself that I was really driving and I wasn’t in a video game. > > Easy there, Evidence. I wasn’t kidding when I said I was high last night. I loooooooove marijuana. I’m a NORML Citizen. I’m saving to buy a vaporizer. I’d love to see marijuana legalized, and think it’s ridiculous that it is illegal while alcohol is legal. I’m well versed in the literature. > > But in post #17, you said marijuana doesn’t affect (not impair, not enhance, but affect) cognitive skills. Full stop. You should have know that statement itself was stupid enough to bring everyone howling out of the woodwork, never mind the “I am my own cite” crap later on. > > So, are you still going to stick by the statement that you do not believe that pot affects one’s cognitive abilities and fine and gross motor skills? Ok, good catch. I should have just said “does not impair.” Of course it _affects_ cognition. That’s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/266 "2010-07-27T16:20:31Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Shut the fuck up. Honestly. Take a look at the idiot’s post count. He won’t. He can’t. And while he used to have about a 10/1 idiot or troll/reasonable poster ratio, that ratio is now trending toward infinity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/267 "2010-07-27T16:22:04Z")
By the way, I don’t think people should drive on acid. That was irreponsible on my part. I shouldn’t have done it, but I had no other way to get to work. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/268 "2010-07-27T16:22:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anecodtes are not evidence. You are the evidence. We get that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/269 "2010-07-27T16:24:42Z")
What is so unreasonable about simply pointing out the FACT that the effects of marijuana do not statistically increase the likelihood for getting into a car accident? To me, that is the same as saying it does not impair driving ability. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/270 "2010-07-27T16:26:14Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Anecodtes are not evidence. > > You are the evidence. We get that. That was a joke. So was the reference to Otto the bus driver. I’m not a drooling moron. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/271 "2010-07-27T16:32:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anecodtes are not evidence.The actual empirical data shows that driving stoned does not increase tthe risk for accidents. There’s no way out of that box. That’s a checkmate for me. So… the nine people just in this thread who directly refute your assertion are supposed to privilege your interpretation of the findings of a scientist who draws conclusions based on probablistic inferences over their own direct experience of the matter at hand. You are fucking insane, and a massive fucking hypocrite as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/272 "2010-07-27T16:34:54Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > Shut the fuck up. Honestly. > > Take a look at the idiot’s post count. He won’t. He can’t. And while he used to have about a 10/1 idiot or troll/reasonable poster ratio, that ratio is now trending toward infinity. I know, I know. This isn’t a new shtick - he’s been doing this since I joined up three years ago. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/273 "2010-07-27T16:36:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Calling me a retard doesn’t refute the scientific facts. Now now, don’t be so hard on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/274 "2010-07-27T16:37:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, it _affects_ cognition, but that’s not the same as _impairing_ it. **Since it does not impair the ability to perform tasks,** I don’t see how it can be said to impair cognition. I would argue that it _enhances_ cognition. Perhaps you have forgotten this post: > [@mhendo](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > In conclusion, \*\*the regular marijuana users in our study showed cognitive impairment in the maze task \*\*and in the WCST on 17mg THC… This evidence is compatible with previous studies showing impaired cognitive function in regular users of marijuana. > > > > Weinstein et al, “A Study Investigating the Acute Dose-response Effects of 13 Mg and 17 Mg Δ 9- Tetrahydrocannabinol on Cognitive-motor Skills, Subjective and Autonomic Measures in Regular Users of Marijuana,” _Journal of Psychopharmacology_, Vol. 22 Issue 4, June 2008, 441-451. > > A quick read through the conclusions and/or the abstracts of a few other papers suggests that, while marijuana (or, to be more precise, the THC in marijuana) can and does impair cognitive and motor skills in most users, there are some users who show little or no effect from using the drug. This is generally explained by a combination of genetic predisposition (i.e., some people seem to have a sort of natural resistance to the effects) and accumulated tolerance (i.e., some people who smoke a lot can build up their tolerance for it, and avoid some of the worst effects). > > […] > > But a blanket statement that it doesn’t impair cognitive or motor function is simply unsupported by the recent medical literature. Which you actually replied to: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Thanks for the cite. I am one of those people who never seemed to suffer any impairment. > > […] > > I still maintain that whatever imparment occurs is still pretty negligable even for those more susceptable to it, and anyone who’s ever been a stoner or around stoners knows that it’s not even close to the same kind of impairment as being drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/275 "2010-07-27T16:38:29Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Anecodtes are not evidence.The actual empirical data shows that driving stoned does not increase tthe risk for accidents. There’s no way out of that box. That’s a checkmate for me. > > So… the nine people just in this thread who directly refute your assertion are supposed to privilege your interpretation of the findings of a scientist who draws conclusions based on probablistic inferences over their own direct experience of the matter at hand. No, I’m saying that hard empirical data trumps anecdotal bullshit. Why the fuck do you think it should be otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/276 "2010-07-27T16:41:48Z")
> [@zut](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Yes, it _affects_ cognition, but that’s not the same as _impairing_ it. **Since it does not impair the ability to perform tasks,** I don’t see how it can be said to impair cognition. I would argue that it _enhances_ cognition. > > Perhaps you have forgotten this post: > > > [@mhendo](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > In conclusion, \*\*the regular marijuana users in our study showed cognitive impairment in the maze task \*\*and in the WCST on 17mg THC… This evidence is compatible with previous studies showing impaired cognitive function in regular users of marijuana. > > > > > > Weinstein et al, “A Study Investigating the Acute Dose-response Effects of 13 Mg and 17 Mg Δ 9- Tetrahydrocannabinol on Cognitive-motor Skills, Subjective and Autonomic Measures in Regular Users of Marijuana,” _Journal of Psychopharmacology_, Vol. 22 Issue 4, June 2008, 441-451. > > > > A quick read through the conclusions and/or the abstracts of a few other papers suggests that, while marijuana (or, to be more precise, the THC in marijuana) can and does impair cognitive and motor skills in most users, there are some users who show little or no effect from using the drug. This is generally explained by a combination of genetic predisposition (i.e., some people seem to have a sort of natural resistance to the effects) and accumulated tolerance (i.e., some people who smoke a lot can build up their tolerance for it, and avoid some of the worst effects). > > > > […] > > > > But a blanket statement that it doesn’t impair cognitive or motor function is simply unsupported by the recent medical literature. > > Which you actually replied to: > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Thanks for the cite. I am one of those people who never seemed to suffer any impairment. > > > > […] > > > > I still maintain that whatever imparment occurs is still pretty negligable even for those more susceptable to it, and anyone who’s ever been a stoner or around stoners knows that it’s not even close to the same kind of impairment as being drunk. Not sure I see your point here. If you think you see a contradiction then I retract the implication that I recognize any impairment. If it does not impair the ability to perform a task, then I don’t se how it can be called an impairment at all, because what else does that word mean? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/277 "2010-07-27T16:42:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Crotalus](#): > > > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > > > Anecodtes are not evidence. > > > > You are the evidence. We get that. > > That was a joke. So was the reference to Otto the bus driver. I’m not a drooling moron. I’m unconvinced. In this case, you truly are the evidence. And as to your question in post 269, a couple of things. The ability to drive was not the subject of your initial stupid statement in this endless Dio-centric thread. In response to **MTCicero** posting “but pot certainly does affect one’s cognitive abilities and fine and gross motor skills.”, you said “No it doesn’t.” Yes it does. The whole driving thing has been an exercise in moving goal posts that has nothing to do with your initial statement. And if part of the population of pot smokers elects to forgo driving because they sense that they are impaired, while drunks don’t sense that, it means that the accident statistics don’t prove that pot doesn’t affect the ability to drive, they prove that pot doesn’t affect the accident statistics. A similar thing could be said about being dead. It definitely affects the ability to drive, but it has a minimal impact on accident rates. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/278 "2010-07-27T16:43:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not a drooling moron. Cotton mouth, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/279 "2010-07-27T16:44:59Z")
Those conclusions are not just based on accident rates but on actual field studies of people performing tasks while under the influence of THC. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223/280 "2010-07-27T16:52:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anecodtes are not evidence.The actual empirical data shows that driving stoned does not increase tthe risk for accidents. There’s no way out of that box. That’s a checkmate for me. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That was a joke. Bull-mother fucking-shit! It’s back-peddling pure and simple. You’ve been arguing that this entire thread. I bet it’s also a preemptive strike against the inevitable… > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I AM the evidence. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anecodtes are not evidence. … contradiction. If you want to post looney speculations that you believe, fine. But now you are just lying in an attempt to salvage your position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-steal-a-camera-during-my-workshop-fuck-you-you-piece-of-messed-up-shit/547223.md?page=15)