# You stupid stupid woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437 "2004-12-12T11:26:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/21 "2004-12-13T06:25:31Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Well they’ve heard of the catcher in the rye anyway. As someone who teaches a lot of Liberal Studies majors (AKA our future teachers), I’d say: Don’t bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/22 "2004-12-13T06:37:18Z")
The mom is an idiot For the record , I absofuckingloutely hated C in the R , but upon remembering the book, I think its ironic that the mom becomes the Catcher in the Rye. I think thats what Caufield was babbling about , with catching kids before they started having adult problems thrust upon em. Yeah flame me , I hated the friggen book , so I may have bastardized what salinger actually meant. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/23 "2004-12-13T10:43:04Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Holden’s self-pitying cluelessness is throughly offputting. If you’re going to require students to read a novel, let it be a worthwhile piece of literature that actually speaks to the human condition in a way that high schoolers can understand. It sounds like you’re saying high school students aren’t familiar with self-pity. Which is a completely ludicrous concept. I don’t think most of my fellow high school sophomores liked the book that much, and I didn’t love it, but it happens. I definitely slogged through worse books in high school. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/24 "2004-12-13T11:38:41Z")
Jeez!! I feel like such an outcast… I liked this book. Although I did read it as an adult. I found it to be quite humorous. (I’m not sure if it was intended to be) This kid’s mind was such a trainwreck I couldn’t help but turn to the next page. I especially found it funny how this kid was the Master at making broad generalizations. One thing I remember about NOT liking about the book is. If I see the phrase “In all…” used just one more time; my heads gonna explode!! As to the OP. Gimme a fucking break! This is a book suited for “Leave It To Beaver” FCOL!! ---
**Author:** ![Brunhilde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@Brunhilde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brunhilde)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/25 "2004-12-13T14:48:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > English classes aren’t just about reading books, though. They’re also about picking out the significant elements in literature and holding them up to the light. In a lecture about symbolism, for instance, it helps if the teacher can cite examples from work that all the students have experienced. A good teacher can’t do those amazing lectures they live for if everyone in the class isn’t literally on the same page. The practice in question was fairly common in my hs; when it came to symbolism, we would discuss it in another work which we had all read. However, when it came to dividing up works, we often applied it to the values contemporary to the time. For example, Catcher in the Rye is early post-modern; how were teens treated, what was significant to becoming an adult? these issues also occur in a Separate Peace and a few others at the time, and a fruitful discussion can be had from discussing these. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/26 "2004-12-13T15:02:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It sounds like you’re saying high school students aren’t familiar with self-pity. Which is a completely ludicrous concept. I don’t think most of my fellow high school sophomores liked the book that much, and I didn’t love it, but it happens. I definitely slogged through worse books in high school. That’s not what I meant, but I can see how my clumsily worded post might give that impression. I just think that **Catcher in the Rye** is an artificial book set in a remote time which doesn’t really speak to contemporary readers. And yes, teens are way familiar with self-pity, but I don’t think it’s a trait to be encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/27 "2004-12-13T15:29:52Z")
I didn’t like _Catcher in the Rye_ when I read it as a teen. It wasn’t until I read it as an adult (at which point I identified more with the adults in the books than with the protagonist) that I really began to appreciate how well it is written. I’m not sure 14-year-olds are well-equipped to appreciate the irony inherent in Holden’s little urban odyssey, though. And to avoid getting this bumped to Cafe Society: this woman needs a thump with the clue stick. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/28 "2004-12-13T16:32:35Z")
> [@The Tim](#): > > Forcing kids to read a particular book is a sure fire way to make kids hate the book, especially on a tight schedule. A model where kids pick out books and break up into classes for the length of the book would probably produce less “I had to read that in high school, and I hated it” stories. For my book report today, I read this month’s issue of Maxim… ---
**Author:** ![BytopianDream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de0a6/32.png) [@BytopianDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BytopianDream)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/29 "2004-12-14T01:30:10Z")
Can we all agree that I Am the Cheese needs to be banned? Please? For the love of all that is holy and good? How about for the love of evil? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/30 "2004-12-14T01:55:35Z")
> [@BytopianDream](#): > > Can we all agree that I Am the Cheese needs to be banned? > Please? > For the love of all that is holy and good? > How about for the love of evil? I don’t know. But \*[Who Moved My Cheese?](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399144463/qid=1102989467/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-6079592-9114358?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) \* certainly should. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/31 "2004-12-14T02:15:38Z")
> [@BytopianDream](#): > > Can we all agree that I Am the Cheese needs to be banned? > Please? > For the love of all that is holy and good? > How about for the love of evil? In a recent article about YA literature that ran in Harpers, the author asked YA librarians who the best author was in the genre. They answered, overwhelmingly it seems, in favor of Robert Cormier. Sure, they could be wrong, but I think Cheese was a pretty unique and poignant book. I still remember it well 20 years after I read it, which is more than I can say for most books. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/32 "2004-12-14T02:18:21Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I agree that it should be removed because it’s a craptacular piece of literature. No teenage in the history of the planet has ever talked like Holden Caufield, there’s no plot to speak of, and Holden’s self-pitying cluelessness is throughly offputting. If you’re going to require students to read a novel, let it be a worthwhile piece of literature that actually speaks to the human condition in a way that high schoolers can understand. Most higher schoolers DO understand the book. Sadly, you just weren’t (or aren’t) one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/33 "2004-12-14T08:39:03Z")
I read The Catcher in the Rye my senior year of high school, and fucking loved it. Of course the kid is narrow-minded and somewhat annoying! That’s the point. It’s obvious in the book that his attitude ruins his life. It also shows the good side of him, the way he cares for his sister. I think he grows throughout the book. He’s still not perfect at the end, but he begins to change his outlook on life. I was totally able to identify it. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/34 "2004-12-14T10:12:19Z")
I read Catcher in the Rye and Grapes of Wrath in the same semester. Most people in my class liked the first and hated the second, but I was one of the few who felt the opposite. Grapes of Wrath had a lot of interesting social commentary and powerful imagery, while Catcher in the Rye had - well, a total fucking moron for a protagonist. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/35 "2004-12-14T16:14:54Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > I read Catcher in the Rye and Grapes of Wrath in the same semester. Most people in my class liked the first and hated the second, but I was one of the few who felt the opposite. Grapes of Wrath had a lot of interesting social commentary and powerful imagery, while Catcher in the Rye had - well, a total fucking moron for a protagonist. Grapes of Wrath is another that has been banned, believe it or not. I’ll try to find a cite. I love the book but Steinbeck lets it drag on for a few chapters too many—he couldn’t find a good ending, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/36 "2004-12-14T16:56:01Z")
I liked Catcher in the Rye, too. Sure there aren’t a lot of kids that talk like Holden Caufield, but there are kids who can relate to his attitude. As a teen I was fairly distrustful of everyone, had low-self esteem and blamed the world for my problems. Was I being a moron about it? Sure, but at least the book let me have a laugh about the whole thing. Holden has a lot of anxiety over life in general; he doesn’t really feel like he fits in anywhere, so the entire world is messed up in his viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/37 "2004-12-14T17:09:13Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Most higher schoolers DO understand the book. Sadly, you just weren’t (or aren’t) one of them. understanding the book (which is easy because it’s a tediously obvious work) and haveing it speak to me are two different propositions. And my high school days are long behind me. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/38 "2004-12-14T20:56:44Z")
[PABBIS](http://www.pabbis.com/) is a repeat offender. They tried to ban _I am the Cheese_ because: > [@](#): > > -Boy takes some kind of pill > > - fart (shows what age this book is aimed at) > > - kisses girl; “…he swelled with love and desire that caused his his body to tremble…” > > -pedophile propositions him while looking for bike: “Theres ree-wards and ree-wards……scratch at himself…. Scrathes with both hands descending to his stomach…All kinds he says. …… I’m still repelled at the lewdness of the big man…” > > - thinks of his “pills working their magic, soothing me.” > > - detailed description of mothers murder when car deliberately crashes into him and parents. > > - Government plot > > - continued flashbacks to psychoanalysis and questioning by government “agency” They have a list of books and their reasons for wanting them out of schools, but they filed “The Chocolate War” under “T” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/39 "2004-12-15T06:56:20Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > [PABBIS](http://www.pabbis.com/) is a repeat offender. They tried to ban _I am the Cheese_ because: > > They have a list of books and their reasons for wanting them out of schools, but they filed “The Chocolate War” under “T” :rolleyes: Jesus-what do they do-take every book off the shelves and deliberately search out the dirty parts? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437/40 "2004-12-15T07:09:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Jesus-what do they do-take every book off the shelves and deliberately search out the dirty parts? I used to :D. - Tamerlane [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-stupid-stupid-woman/279437.md?page=3)