# You think the Earth orbits the sun? Guess again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027 "2006-02-11T20:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/1 "2006-02-11T20:14:55Z")
The Earth doesn’t orbit the sun. The sun orbits the earth. The Bible says so, and these guys are offering $1000 to anybody who can prove differently: [http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/geochallenge.htm](http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/geochallenge.htm) Now, I know their logic is absolutely bullet proof, what with the Bible being on their side and all, but if any of you guys collect the grand I want $50 for a finders fee, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/2 "2006-02-11T20:27:11Z")
This challenge appears to have originated in 2002. Hmmmm. This is interesting– > [@](#): > > Now a word of caution. By “proof” we mean that your explanations must be direct, observable, physical, natural, repeatable, unambiguous and comprehensive. We don’t want hearsay, popular opinion, “expert” testimony, majority vote, personal conviction, organizational rulings, superficial analogies, appeals to “simplicity,” “apologies” to Galileo, or any other indirect means of persuasion which do not qualify as scientific proof. I wonder if this standard applies to Catholic dogma as well? Here the rules seem to shift a bit– > [@](#): > > The main question they have to answer is: Can it be proven, by direct and irrefutable scientific evidence, that the Heliocentric system is the ONLY viable system to understand the universe. I can safely tell you that the answer to that question is an unqualified NO, and thus I don’t make the “CAI $1000 Challenge” lightly. Not exactly as first stated, is it? My guess is that whatever animal this turns out to be, there’s a whole lotta weasel in it. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/3 "2006-02-11T20:28:52Z")
What’s the use? I could float in space above the solar north pole for a year and record the movement of the planets on my Sony camcorder and it still wouldn’t convince them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/4 "2006-02-11T20:31:38Z")
It may not be possible to prove it, if one wants to be prickly about demanding absolute frames of reference and whatnot. You can argue against the Earth being the unmoving center of the universe, pointing out that if the stars are such-and-such distance away, they would have to complete a circle 2π times that amount in 24 hours, putting their speed well above that of light. Getting them to buy that the stars are that far away and the speed of light is a limiting factor is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/5 "2006-02-11T20:31:44Z")
Is there a chance we’re all being whooshed here? I checked the site and found [this](http://www.catholicintl.com/miscellany/joke.htm) and [this](http://www.catholicintl.com/miscellany/quotes.htm) . Also, are apologists in the habit of calling themselves apologists? It’s always struck me as a negative term used to describe dishonest debators. I could be wrong though. If it’s not a whoosh, these people are dumber than a box of hammers. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/6 "2006-02-11T20:35:27Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > Also, are apologists in the habit of calling themselves apologists? It’s always struck me as a negative term used to describe dishonest debators. I could be wrong though. Classicaly, an apologist is a defender, or an explainer.[Cite.](http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/apologist) ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/7 "2006-02-11T20:42:39Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Classicaly, an apologist is a defender, or an explainer.[Cite.](http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/apologist) Well, yeah, I know about the classical use of the term. My question was whether organizations still called themselves that _today_. It strikes me as odd. Then again, so do these guys :dubious: . One more thing–and this is a stretch, I’ll admit. Doesn’t the name “Sungenis” remind you of anything else? [Anything at all?](http://www.subgenius.com/) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/8 "2006-02-11T20:44:03Z")
Huh? Hasn’t the Official Church position basically fallen back to the big bang and before? The CC has accepted all this stuff. Is this just a test for making the argument in an original way 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/9 "2006-02-11T20:50:39Z")
It boggles the mind that there could be people, seemingly educated people, that can even suggest this position to be true. In an age of space flight were the calculations of planetary movement can land vehicles on other heavenly bodies (like a comet!) how can this even be spoken with a straight face? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/10 "2006-02-11T20:52:00Z")
Well, it seems to me, if you can put together a Foucault pendulum for under $1000, you’re going to make a profit on the deal. Straightforward, really … ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/11 "2006-02-11T20:53:57Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > Well, yeah, I know about the classical use of the term. My question was whether organizations still called themselves that _today_. It strikes me as odd. Then again, so do these guys :dubious: . Sorry. This threw me off– > [@](#): > > It’s always struck me as a negative term used to describe dishonest debators. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/12 "2006-02-11T20:54:20Z")
Nitpick - They orbit each other or better both orbit the center of mass of the 2 objects (with other gravitational influnces like the moon). ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/13 "2006-02-11T20:56:08Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Sorry. This threw me off– No probs. (That dubious smiley wasn’t meant for _you_, btw.) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/14 "2006-02-11T20:58:52Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > No probs. (That dubious smiley wasn’t meant for _you_, btw.) You better find a way to make it a problem. This is the Pit, buddy. And oh yeah. The mods can kiss my assface! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/15 "2006-02-11T21:00:16Z")
[ > [@](#): > > Robert A. Sungenis, M.A., Ph.D. (cand.) > President > Principal Apologist > > Robert Sungenis is the president of Catholic Apologetics International — an international evangelistic organization dedicated to teaching and defending the Catholic faith. CAI produces books, audio and video tapes, holds conferences, seminars and debates… ]([http://www.catholicintl.com/aboutus/b-robert.htm](http://www.catholicintl.com/aboutus/b-robert.htm)) CMC ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/16 "2006-02-11T21:05:32Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > Also, are apologists in the habit of calling themselves apologists? It’s always struck me as a negative term used to describe dishonest debators. I could be wrong though. Yes, there are people who self-identify as apologists and see it as a perfectly valid title. We even had a guy on the SDMB a few years ago who self-identified as a “Catholic apologist.” He didn’t stay around long, though. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/17 "2006-02-11T21:07:08Z")
Sungenis [appears to be a real author](http://www.aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/store.ItemDetails/sku/1838). I don’t think this is a joke, although I could be wrong. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/18 "2006-02-11T21:11:06Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes, there are people who self-identify as apologists and see it as a perfectly valid title. It is a perfectly valid title, or, rather, description. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/19 "2006-02-11T21:19:54Z")
> [@Steve Wright](#): > > Well, it seems to me, if you can put together a Foucault pendulum for under $1000, you’re going to make a profit on the deal. Straightforward, really … [ > [@](#): > > R. Sungenis: Foucault pendulums do not prove the earth is rotating for the same reason that Coriolis forces do not prove it. The only thing a Foucault pendulum proves is that there is some force that is making the pendulum turn in a plane relative to the earth. Where that force originates no one has yet proven. In this light, it is interesting to note that several experiments performed during total eclipses have shown that Foucault pendulums behave erratically. This would not be the case if the motion of the pendulum were solely dependent on earth rotation. ]([http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/ewtn-geocentrism.htm](http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/ewtn-geocentrism.htm)) CMC ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/20 "2006-02-11T21:21:38Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Sungenis [appears to be a real author](http://www.aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/store.ItemDetails/sku/1838). I don’t think this is a joke, although I could be wrong. > > Daniel Yeesh! Looks like they’re dumb as a box of hammers after all. I love their [employment section](http://www.catholicintl.com/aboutus/employment.htm), specifically their ad for an e-marketer: > [@box of hammers](#): > > This position is not a remunerated one. However, if you are successful in helping us secure an engagement, we will reward you handsomely with tapes, books, and other such bonuses. BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAHHHH!!! Yeah, where do I sign? Part of me wants to apply for the job and then sit down with friends and hold a pool to see who can get these guys a gig in the worst hellhole in North America. It’s so much funnier now that I know it’s real. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027.md?page=2)