# You think the Earth orbits the sun? Guess again. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027 "2006-02-11T20:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/21 "2006-02-11T22:14:39Z")
Weirdly, they’re right in a way. All bodies in space orbit each other. Of course, the Heliocentric (or, in galatic terms, the Great Attractor-centric) model is the only one which makes sense to the human mind, and for good reason. All others require ridiculously complex motions, as I understand it. Of course, it doesn’t stop them from being foolish. And of course, it appears they don’t even understand the actualy precepts of the faith they claim to promote. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/22 "2006-02-11T22:38:36Z")
I realize that laughing at the Google ads was so December '05, but right now, I’m seeing an ad for “Humor Writing Classes.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/23 "2006-02-11T22:42:25Z")
Er, hang on. I went and checked the site, assuming they were saying “You must prove that the Earth doesn’t revolve around the Sun” - an impossible task, as it does. But that’s not what they’re saying…they’re challenging people to prove the Sun _does_ revolve around the Earth. And it does, all bodies orbit each other, albeit incredibly slowly and over insanely small (respectively) distances. So, uhm…we _can_ prove that? ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/24 "2006-02-11T22:46:09Z")
Today I had a thought that tools like these need to be barred from use of the fruits of scientific enquiry. No fundy TV or radio, certainly no satellite distribution, etc. etc. You want to push your silly assed dogma, hire a town crier to spread the word. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/25 "2006-02-11T22:46:35Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Huh? Hasn’t the Official Church position basically fallen back to the big bang and before? The CC has accepted all this stuff. > > Is this just a test for making the argument in an original way 😕 The CAI are loons. Here is a review by another Catholic outfit, [Catholic Culture](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=1900), (free registration required), (neither group is an official (as in church sponsored) Catholic organization): > [@](#): > > CAI and Sungenis seem to have fallen into the unfortunate error of dogmatizing what are in fact personal views. Though the specific examples change with the addition of new material, with each visit to the site, we find that the tone of the site as a whole remains extreme and very confrontational. > . . . > WEAKNESSES [ul] > [li]Criticisms of the Pope John Paull II’s relations with other religions show an implicit rejection of Catholic teaching on salvation. (Fidelity)[/li][Example(s)](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?Example=3006&recnum=1900&task=showexample) > [li]Constant criticism of the New Mass which promotes a disrespect for papal authorithy over the liturgy. (Fidelity) [/li][Example(s)](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?Example=3003&recnum=1900&task=showexample) > [li]Some material is blatantly anti-semitic. (Fidelity) [/li][Example(s)](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?Example=3002&recnum=1900&task=showexample) > [li]Questionable links (Fidelity) [/li][Example(s)](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?Example=3041&recnum=1900&task=showexample) > [li] **Places considerable stress on largely-discredited scientific theories, including advocacy of Geocentrism, as if acceptance of these theories is critical to right Faith.** (Resources) [/li][Example(s)](http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?Example=3005&recnum=1900&task=showexample)[/ul] [**bolding mine**] I am not sure how Sungenis has successfully kept his wager up for 3+ years unless no one has bothered to challenge him or unless he has simply chosen to ignore (or refused to accept) the parallaxes of 61 Cygni and Alpha Centauri that the Church has accepted as evidence since their discoveries in 1838 and 1839. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/26 "2006-02-11T22:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think this is a joke, although I could be wrong. It’s not a joke. There are some (really really crazy) traditionalist Catholics who not only don’t accept evolution, they don’t accept heliocentrism. I don’t think any of them have argued for a flat earth, but I can’t be sure. They give those of us supporting the legitimate traditionalist movement a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/27 "2006-02-11T22:54:36Z")
From the linked site: > [@](#): > > - It effects your view of Modern Man … > > - It effects your view of the Church … > > - It effects your view of Scripture … > > - Finally, it also effects your view of God … You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/28 "2006-02-11T23:03:02Z")
They’re right. The sun, and the rest of the known universe, revolves around the earth, or (more specifically), a very small approx. 75 lb. autonomous body that sits in the southeastern United States known as “my daughter.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/29 "2006-02-11T23:38:21Z")
I wonder what _could_ be proved to them using the scientific method? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/30 "2006-02-12T01:03:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I wonder what _could_ be proved to them using the scientific method? I hope nothing. I want them to cling to and promote the most assinine beliefs around, so that they attract fewer members. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/31 "2006-02-12T01:20:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Nitpick - They orbit each other or better both orbit the center of mass of the 2 objects (with other gravitational influnces like the moon). This is called the [barycenter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter). And technically speaking, all bodies of the solar system orbit about a common barycenter that inscribes an erratic path that stays within Sol’s photosphere. For all practical purposes, the Earth and the other planets, does rotate about the Sun. The Earth-Luna system, or more dramatically, Pluto and Charon, can be reasonably said to orbit about a definitive barycenter. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@Steve Wright](#): > > > > Well, it seems to me, if you can put together a Foucault pendulum for under $1000, you’re going to make a profit on the deal. Straightforward, really … > > > [@](#): > > > > R. Sungenis: Foucault pendulums do not prove the earth is rotating for the same reason that Coriolis forces do not prove it. The only thing a Foucault pendulum proves is that there is some force that is making the pendulum turn in a plane relative to the earth. Where that force originates no one has yet proven. In this light, it is interesting to note that several experiments performed during total eclipses have shown that Foucault pendulums behave erratically. This would not be the case if the motion of the pendulum were solely dependent on earth rotation. Yes and no. We don’t really understand the orientable property–the rotational invaraince–that generates the Coriolis component but it isn’t true to say that the Foucault pendulum doesn’t demonstrate proper rotational motion with respect to the system center of mass. This is the case in every observed condition down to our ability to measure and accounting for the effects of general relativity when you get to the extremes of mass and velocity. One can argue that we don’t know why time only goes inexorably in one direction, but that doesn’t invalidate the laws of thermodynamics. The alleged erratic behavior of [Foulcault pendulums](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault%27s_pendulum) can be excused by a combination of effects, including the small amount of force measured, influences of the Earth-Luna rotation, radial asymmetry of the Earth, the orientation of the planet with respect to the ecliptic plane, et cetera. Foulcault pendulums do give a result which is sufficiently close to the anticipated theoretical dynamic response that for all intents and purposes they confirm the theory. But the real proof is in our ability to use Keplerian laws to deliver spacecraft to interplanetary locales. If indeed Sol orbited Earth, the resulting transformations would have the Voyagers and other probes flying off in massively incorrect paths. Of course, you could take up the argument that all these programs were faked, but then you’d be in tin-foil hat/bad O.J. Simpson conspiracy movie land. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/32 "2006-02-12T03:03:34Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Huh? Hasn’t the Official Church position basically fallen back to the big bang and before? The CC has accepted all this stuff. > > Is this just a test for making the argument in an original way 😕 Yes, the Catholic Church has accepted most modern science really. The Church, despite all its faults (and as a practicing Catholic I do think Catholic leaders in the past have definitely made some bad calls) has in general been able to learn from past mistakes. Where once we condemned Galileo now we embrace him. The Church _long_ ago abandoned the Earth as the center of the universe crap. The church is also accepting of the Big Bang and evolution. Although evolution is more of a mixed bag, as there are seom Catholics and Catholic leaders who sort of accept it in a twisted manner. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/33 "2006-02-12T03:39:24Z")
I’ll give a thousand bucks to anyone who can prove that Antarctica exists to my satisfaction 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/34 "2006-02-12T07:24:04Z")
You’re not supposed to list a credential until you’ve earned it …Ph.D. (cand.)…that’s as lame as the A.B.D., but at least in an ABD the claimant has passed all the comps…as for the topic bit, who knows? As for these loons wnating direct observation … astronmony never uses direct observation, the merit of the heliocentric theory prevailed on the emergent laws of gravity and calculus, as well as the predictive power of the theory. If the terracentric people want to prevail, they’ll have to prove their theory…shooting holes in heliocentrism would merely open the door for an alternate model, it would not elevate terracentric theory to the top of the heap. I’m wondering if these people really understand gravity, and how it really does compel the lessly-massed things to orbit the morely-massed things… I don’t see how gravity can be consistent with terracentrism, unless the sun is waaaaaaaaaaaay lighter, or some such nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/35 "2006-02-12T07:42:50Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’ll give a thousand bucks to anyone who can prove that Antarctica exists to my satisfaction 😉 Come live in Melbourne when an icey sou’westerly guster blows in the middle of winter, and you’ll just KNOW that Antarctica exists. Oh yeah. No doubt about it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/36 "2006-02-12T08:25:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I wonder what _could_ be proved to them using the scientific method? [Monty Python]All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much thicker in the middle and then thin again at the far end. [/MP] ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/37 "2006-02-12T09:36:34Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > What’s the use? I could float in space above the solar north pole for a year and record the movement of the planets on my Sony camcorder and it still wouldn’t convince them. You’d need a hell of a long lens… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/38 "2006-02-12T12:31:36Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > The Church _long_ ago abandoned the Earth as the center of the universe crap. The church is also accepting of the Big Bang and evolution. Although evolution is more of a mixed bag, as there are seom Catholics and Catholic leaders who sort of accept it in a twisted manner. Yep, you’re right. Pope Pius XII outlined the RCC’s position on evolution in the encyclical _Humani generis_: > [@](#): > > The Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, insofar as it inquiries into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter. Or, worded in a more direct way, generally accepted evolutionary theory and the RCC’s teachings are not at odds, so long as the theory does not assert that this system necessarily negates the existence of God, his use of evolution to serve his purposes (one of which was to create humans), and his overall spiritual plan for us, his children. These are positions on which a scientist, in that role, should have no opinion, I think reasonable people would agree. Regardless, evolution is largely a theological non-issue for Catholics. But, just as important for whackos like those cited in the OP, the RCC does not _demand_ a belief in evolution (or any other scientific theory). That’s not its province. These scientific facts are, of course, taught every day in Catholic schools; as noted, they are not in any way inconsistent with RCC teachings. But students (and whacko “apologists”) are within their rights as Catholics to reject these scientific positions. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/39 "2006-02-12T12:47:14Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Come live in Melbourne when an icey sou’westerly guster blows in the middle of winter, and you’ll just KNOW that Antarctica exists. Oh yeah. No doubt about it. Nah. There’s just somewhere cold to the South of you. Doesn’t prove there’s a continent… ---
**Author:** ![LucyInDisguise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucyindisguise/32/18064_2.png) [@LucyInDisguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LucyInDisguise)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027/40 "2006-02-12T13:22:34Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’ll give a thousand bucks to anyone who can prove that Antarctica exists to my satisfaction 😉 I’ll go ya one better: I will pay $100,000 dollars to anyone who can prove I’m not the center of the universe. NO purchase necessary. $50.00 entry fee. No time limit, No deadline. You may enter as many times as you wish. You may enter as often as you wish. (Preference may be given to entrants who enter frequently and consistently.) Entry fee must accompany each entry. Only U. S. currency in the form of cash accepted. Entries must be sent in a plain brown envelope. DO NOT USE the U. S. Mail system. Contact me for details on where to send the cash. Entries will not be judged on any merit or any standard frame of refernce except the one I will choose to invent on the day of Judgement. Judging will take place in the event of a third full blue moon in the month of June in the third decacentury following the rapture (or when ever I get a round tuit). Entry fees are not refundable. Not valid in the state of confusion. (UT) Must be able to prove you are older than 2 yrs of age at the time of award. All other standard legal disclaimers that will prevent you from filing lawsuits or charges against me apply. Lucy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-earth-orbits-the-sun-guess-again/344027.md?page=3)