# You think the US has looting problems in Iraq? The UN can't even police itself. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033 "2003-05-04T16:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/121 "2003-05-06T13:43:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Moronic. You think the US wasn’t involved in Bosnia? You think a million people being massacred is a UN success? You think the UN helped make the lives of Cambodians better? But this wasn’t December’s point at all. He found a light-hearted report about some people taking some alcohol and some cutlery (the food was free) and made sure to emphasise the quote ‘like a war zone’ and put in his thread title that it corresponded to looting of hospitals, shops, offices and museums while armed US troops watched. So do you know the difference between nicking some bottles and a war zone? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > And you think you’ve contributed some sort of analysis here? Why, do you? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Changing the questions, dodging the realities, and making stuff up does not constitute analysis. I give your homework an “F”. ‘Changing the question’, huh? What, like you’re doing? Do you know the difference between nicking some bottles and a war zone? ‘Dodging the realities’? You jump from the UN cafeteria incident to Srebrenica as if they were comparable? And this is your definition of analysis? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/122 "2003-05-06T15:06:18Z")
_SNIFF_ No one is interested in rebutting my contributions \* ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/123 "2003-05-06T15:12:46Z")
Don’t feel bad, **Mtgman** , nobody mentioned my “weapons of mass consumption” remark either. I think I’ll pout in the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/124 "2003-05-06T15:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > _ **– permitting the theft of money and support for terrorism in the West Bank** _ Cite for the assertion of theft of money? Yes, I’m going to call you on this whenever I feel like it. It is your pet theory that Arafat is embezzling funds from the relief efforts of the EU and UN. Continue asserting it as fact and you will continue to face cite requests until both you and the casual reader are sick of the exchange. Still, there will be little doubt that it is simply your assertion that funds have been diverted and the Palestinian people kept poor by corruption in their own ranks. More thoughtful minds will no doubt give creedence to the ideas that the repeated destruction of infrastructure by the IDF and continued strife between the Palestinians and the overwhelming military force of Israel is the real reason for Palestinian impoverishment. Even if every single penny given in aid to the PA/PLO was spent on infrastructure it would not be enough to produce a prosperous state with the destruction visited upon the area by Israel and the economic situation in the area. No doubt the leadership of the PA has its share of issues and corruption. Possibly even more than other organizations. Regardless it is still inappropriate to condemn them of embezzlement without evidence. Stick to facts. They’re safer. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/125 "2003-05-06T15:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Cite for the assertion of theft of money? \*\* I just posted the cite on [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=181918). > [@](#): > > “HE’S BILLION-DOLLAR ARAFAT” > > One estimate of Arafat’s wealth is that $1.3 Billion is a fraction of it. Other estimates are [$10 Billion and $11 Billion.](http://pub169.ezboard.com/ftheglobalpoliticsandmilitaryforumfrm5.showMessage?topicID=610.topic) > > > [@](#): > > > > August 14, 2002 – JERUSALEM - Yasser Arafat has secretly amassed at least $1.3 billion in “personal assets,” Israel’s chief of military intelligence said yesterday. > > > > Maj. Gen. Aharon Zeevi’s comments were based on financial documents and other evidence confiscated earlier this year from the PLO chairman’s headquarters in Ramallah and other Palestinian Authority offices in the West Bank… > > > > But a high-ranking Israeli official said the confirmed $1.3 billion is believed to be only a fraction of Arafat’s true holdings. > > > > A 1994 British intelligence report allegedly put the figure at more than $10 billion. Recently, a knowledgeable Israeli source put the figure at $11 billion… > > > > - Arafat’s wealth is held in bank accounts, real estate and other assets that can easily be made liquid. > > > > - The bank accounts are spread about in Europe, Arab countries, the Far East - and even the United States - under different companies controlled by Arafat. > > > > - Arafat has made some of his top deputies, including Abu Ala, Abu Mazen and Nabil Shaath, very rich. > > > > “Arafat took care of his closest aides. Some of them have tens of millions of dollars,” one source said. > > > > Arafat’s wife Suha, who has been living in Paris during the Palestinian uprising, is believed to control some of his hidden assets… > > > > The intricate network of numbered bank accounts and hidden assets is believed to be so complex that only Arafat, Rashid and one or two other Palestinians know their extent. > > > > The main source of Arafat’s wealth is believed to be the approximately $6 billion contributed by the United States, Japan and European countries as financial aid to the authority from 1993 to 2000, sources said… > > > > \*\*“The Palestinian people’s money is Arafat’s personal money,” a high-ranking Israeli official said. “That’s the way he treats it. Everything belongs to him.” \*\* > > > > Well before he returned to the Gaza Strip and West Bank as president in 1994, Arafat was receiving huge contributions from Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the oil sheikdoms of the Persian Gulf to finance the PLO. > > > > In addition to aid from governments, Arafat’s inner circle is believed to have received millions of dollars in business graft based on imports of valued goods. > > > > “The kickbacks work this way,” a top Israeli official said: > > > > “A group of Palestinians gets a monopoly on gasoline or cigarettes or cement or something. The Palestinian consumer then pays an inflated price for his gas, because the price includes a special fee that goes in the hands of Arafat’s people.” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033/126 "2003-05-06T16:13:31Z")
Yes, the Israelis have been making quite a number of accusations. It is in their interest of course. I’m sure, on one hand, that EU, UN and other monies were siphoned off here and there. Nature of things in the end. Happens with USAID programs as well. Now, if we are to move beyond a smear campaign, well there is other info to be collected. Of interest: “Behind the myth” PHIL REEVES The Independent - United Kingdom; Jun 26, 2002 > [@](#): > > … trouble had been brewing for a long time. For months before the outbreak of the new intifada, Palestinians had been increasingly critical of Arafat’s failure to achieve results in peace-making with Israel and of the dire state of Palestinian government. > > Ever since he assumed power as the chairman of the Palestinian Authority in 1994, Arafat’s rule had been one of total chaos. His ministries were abysmally inefficient, mired by nepotism, over-manning and general cronyism. He has many political qualities, … \*\*ut running government is not among his skills. > > Money has been squandered on an operatic scale in the pockets of land that are autonomously ruled by the Palestinian Authority under the 1993 Oslo agreements - the main towns of the West Bank, on 20 per cent of the territory, and 60 per cent of Gaza. Meanwhile, Arafat’s security apparatus became a network of private armies, vying with each other for primacy. **interjection: US backed, CIA trained in part funded** > > Democracy was always only a word to be bandied in front of the cameras. Those who opposed his decision to embark on the road to statehood were arrested by his _CIA-trained police._ And those who dared to suggest his government was autocratic and venal were threatened, and even jailed. > **emphasis added** > > … > > Crucial to Arafat’s survival has been his ability to control the PA chequebook personally, dispensing funds and - until the Israelis locked up the Palestinian population after the start of their uprising - lucrative business contracts with Israel as a means of reinforcing his own powerbase. **Israel and the US tacitly endorsed this, believing it helped shore up a compliant Palestinian leadership.** Now, with the collapse of Oslo and the renewed explosion of violence, both are leading the chorus of allegations of corruption and demands for reform. > **emphasis added** > **interjection: of course this is all now the EU and the UN’s fault** > > The corruption sprang up almost the moment Arafat returned in 1994 from exile in Tunis to the Gaza Strip to take control of the newly created Palestinian Authority. … Within months of arriving, however, his senior PLO colleagues were busy building themselves luxury villas on the strip’s sand dunes, a blow to the feelings of the hundreds of thousands of refugees who had lived there in squalor and poverty during the occupation. > > _Yet Arafat himself, although he uses corruption as a tool to bind people closer to him, has shown little sign of interest in personal wealth since his days in Kuwait as a young man, the founder of the Fatah organisation, when he had a fondness for fast cars and fine clothes. He is personally frugal, neither smoking nor drinking. Those Israelis, including Ariel Sharon, who have heartily wished him dead over the years can take little comfort from his modest lifestyle which, though at times a trifle odd (he pours tea over his cornflakes and spoons Yemeni honey into his tea), are decidedly healthy. The only dash of exotica emerged in 1990, when, out of the blue, he married a tall, green-eyed blonde Christian 30 years his junior; Suha Tawil, who had worked as his assistant. But she removed herself to the quieter climes of Paris many months ago._ > **interjection: thus my discounting the rather more lurid claims advanced do opportunistically by Israeli intelligence well known for its black ops** > > Arafat is terrible at delegating, hugging power close to himself and his coterie of favoured aides. Within the PLO there are a number of articulate, young, highly intelligent and educated figures who have long advocated internal reforms and democratisation. They make far more effective advocates of the Palestinian cause than the ranting ministers and grisly security chiefs whom Arafat has allowed to appear on the airwaves. But, until recently, Arafat kept these younger figures in the shadows. Actually a much longer and more interesting article, but this serves to give context for december’s relentless smear campaign. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-think-the-us-has-looting-problems-in-iraq-the-un-cant-even-police-itself/173033.md?page=6)