It sounds like a lot of them were diplomats, who are used to cushy lifestyles and don’t see anything unusual about free food and drinks.
I understand what you’re saying. But as an outsider who is neither liberal nor conservative, what I see is that someone brought up a rather surprising example of documented incivility. And now the topic is not about that, but about the character of the person who brought it up. Worse, it is morphing into how the person should have brought it up — as though there is a right way and a wrong way, i.e., a way that will not offend and a way that will.
This is like Bizarro Stormfront, where a conservative may speak so long as he frames his argument in a manner acceptable to the predominance of liberals. Doubtless, all concerned will deny the legitimacy of my perception, but nevertheless, it’s what I perceive.
I honestly believe, whether rightly or wrongly that had, say you, brought this matter up, we would all still be talking about it and drawing comparisons between it and the looting in Iraq. This topic is a matter that can be effectively argued either way — there is or is not a legitimate analogy to the looting in Iraq — but rather than approaching the topic that way, the overwhelming focus is on the personality of December.
I’ve heard many times from people that December yanks chains. I don’t think he does. I think that his viewpoint is dismissed categorically, not based on its merit, but on the reputation that you and others have pinned on him.
Yeah, but were they foreign diplomats or American diplomats? Or a healthy balance of the two?
I think december’s implying that this was done by foreigners, which has not yet been establshed.
No, it isn’t.
december is a zealot, i.e. a fanatic. So are you in some respects.
The people as Stormfront as zealots, too.
december, you, and Stormfront all share that common trait, fanatacism, even though your beliefs are wildly different.
Like, um, they are zealots, too,
Where the fuck does December imply that this was done by foreigners?
Thank you, Libertarian. Actually some of the OP’s critics seem to be on automatic pilot. E.g.,
Of course, I merely quoted Time. If there was any spin or misinterpretation, it came from them.
Not bothering to find his own criticism, but merely piling on.
When I quote a top news magazine as a cite, it’s “willful ignorance.” OTOH Dead Badger has no cite at all to show that the article is hyperbolic. Maybe believing something bad about the UN is automatically “willful ignorance” in his book. Or, perhaps, anything posted by myself is.
spooje, I didn’t mean to imply that it was done by foreigners. In fact, the Newsmax article I quoted specifically mentions an American diplomat pilfering booze.
Narrad, yes I do have a POV. I think that the UN employees on average have poor morale. For many, their job is a sinecure, rather than a calling to promote world peace. (However, my criticism doesn’t apply to WHO, which is terrific.)
I think that the UN has generally done a poor to dreadful job of supervising troubled areas. One of the worst was permitting the massacre of approximately 8,000 Muslim men and boys, and the torture, rape, and killing of many women and children, which occured in and near the UN declared “safe area” of Srebrenica.
I think the coalition will do a much better job of nation-building in Iraq than then the UN would. I think the Iraqi people are fortunate that this task has not been handed over to the UN.
Ok, I think I get the point he is trying to make:
So I think the point (however stupid it may be) is that the UN cannot police itself so how could it possibly police Iraq? I know it’s really stupid but I cannot find any other interpretation. I am not even going to address the substance of that point as I think it is unnecessary.
december judging the UN by the incident created by a strike of the cafeteria employees in NYC is utterly stupid. Just like judging the US government by some similar incident (and I am sure we could find them by the hundreds). Your OP is pure idiocy.
Well, probably more than 90% of people who have access to the cafeteria are not American, so odds are a majority of people taking advantage of the free stuff were not American. I fail to see how this helps his “argument.” But I also fail to see how his “argument” is anything other than ridiculous.
Thanks for helping to prove my point.
Where the hell are you getting this from? Is this your interpretation of Friday’s events? Anyway, there’s no reason to think that most of the people who took stuff were U.N. employees. Most people who have access to the building are not U.N. employees.
Except for that cite I posted, of course. Or are you so tied up in this story that anything that contradicts your view is actually invisible to you?
FWIW, the wilful ignorance to which I refer is your insistence on a literal parsing of single sentence in a light-hearted news article rather than applying your brain, not to mention your deliberate commingling of two separate quotes to try and make things seem as bad as you possibly can.
Incidentally, I’m not among those who view you as a permanent troll, or as invariably ignorant. I just happen to think that this particular OP is one of your more ridiculous.
Of course this minor, amusing incident doesn’t prove anything. However, I believe that a serious review of UN efforts to keep the peace and to do nation building would show that they have not done a good job in these areas.
The silverware was stolen by Iran, Syria, and North Korea:
They were looking for weapons of mass consumption.
He hasn’t done that. Therefore, if his OP is “pure idiocy”, then there is scarcely a term that will adequately describe the stupidity, depravity, and irrelevance of your objection. The UN’s failures at so-called nation building are legendary. If you need cites, then you need to study the matter further before making comments on it.
Does anyone here agree with december that the incident proves anything about the capacity of the UN to carry out its functions or about the morale of its employees? Anyone?
I guess we could also discuss the debacle of the last presidential election and how it reflects on the USA and what it means with regards to its capacity to walk and chew gum at the same time.
No, Sailor. No one agrees with the straw man you are presenting as December’s argument. So what?
And how is this new?
Have we not had many a thread where someone compares something to Nazi Germany resulting in an angry discussion of how the comparison is inappropriate?
The Time article quotes witnesses who compare a food fight and silverware stealing to a war zone where people actually die. Is this a valid comparison just because both are - you know - bad things? And why can’t we discuss that? And is december advocating the comparison in his OP? He certainly hasn’t distanced himself from it there. A lot of people think that such postings are a part of a pattern of behavior on december’s part.
Look, Lib, you’re welcome to your perception. But a lot of people have a different take on this and I don’t see you trying to understand it. From my point of view, you’ve oversimplified by lumping people into a “liberal/anti-december” camp without trying to understand the root of their frustration.
So what does december mean when he says “The UN can’t even police itself.”? Unless this is ultra-literal day, I really can’t see how this can be taken as anything other than a sideways snipe at the UN’s peacekeeping activities.