Unfortunately, that does sort of sum it up. About all we plebes can do is try not to get any blood in the water.
Could you name a few “good corporate citizens”, that we might have a standard to measure against?
From what I have seen, WholeFoods is good corporate citizen (political opinions of officers and price of some items notwithstanding). They pay a living wage and offer benefits. They go out of their way to recycle, carry local products, and be generally sustainable. They employ local art students to do their signs. Ben and Jerry’s was also a good corporate citizen before they got bought out.
Jonathan
For the same reason that if you say Obama’s Presidency has seen a lot of broken promises, I’ll agree, but if you say he’s an arsonist, I’ll defend him, even though I’m not a big fan of his.
You see, so far as I’m aware, he’s not an arsonist.
I trust you see the parallels here.
I know you think personal responsibility shouldn’t exist, and I know you think people that point out failures of personal responsibility are jerks.
I disagree with you on both counts.
Except the “lies” were all in your head. They may have said general platitudes about how they’re there for you, but before you charged a nickel on their card they sent you a piece of paper that said, “Hey, here are our actual rules,” and nowhere in that paper did it say how they were there for you. Instead, it listed the ways they could screw you the moment you dropped your guard an inch. I have two credit cards, and I don’t call either of those companies up to share my pride at my son’s taekwondo achievements or commiserate over the problems I have at work with an obstinate coworker. Because, you see, they have already made clear to me that they are not my friends. I have plenty of friends. I don’t need to delude myself into believing that just because some company runs an ad with smiling faces helping old ladies, that they will be my friend.
OK? So, no, they didn’t lie. They were in fact crystal clear about their relationship with you. If you chose to not believe it, that’s on you.
They get to choose their customers? Not for retail banking. No bank can make you hold a checking account with them, unless I’m missing something…
They do get to write all the contracts, but if you want to do business, it’s your responsibility to understand the terms or pass them up and get a better deal.
No, they don’t get to change the contracts whenever they feel like it. They can change them within certain regulated parameters concerning rates and disclosures, and if you don’t like it, you have the opportunity to switch.
So because something’s big and corporate, it doesn’t require defending in the case that it’s not doing anything wrong? I’m failing to follow the logic here.
I can’t believe I’m defending Chase here. I have my own problems with them for other reasons, but I can’t follow the logic here.
Intel
Cisco
Starbucks
I have a Chase Visa card, and I have linked it to my credit union checking account.
Every month, on the due date, Chase yanks 100% of the money I owe on the Visa card from my checking account. (I always keep $30-40K in that account.)
I’m very happy with that service, and am actually very surprised Chase offered it to me 4-5 years ago, because it guarantees that I pay my bill in full, on time, every time. As a result, Chase never gets late fees from me or any interest income from me.
If this automatic payment service is offered to you, my advice is to take it.
Since I missed the edit window, here are a few cites on Whole foods and corporate citizenship.
Talked about halfway down this article.
This blog post.
The only list I have found of good corporate citizens is a little suspect to me. First because of some to the companies on it (Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Monsanto, Exxon). Then I read this:
So basically it is list of what corporate officers think are good corporations.
As is, generally, setting it up to automatically take the minimum. Which the OP could have done for at least the month prior, month of, and month after the move and then changed it back when things calmed down.
And I’m not defending Chase, either. They held up their end of the… well, bargain doesn’t really fit. They did exactly what they said they were going to do.
Some credit cards have a service that will email you a couple of days before the due date if you still have a balance. I have a Citibank credit card that does this. Once I made a similar mistake, except it was less than $1 (payment was like $75.34 and I sent them $75.00). I got an email stating I still had a $0.34 balance a couple days before the due date and was able to get it paid by phone in time, saving me from an expensive rate hike.
Whoa there, bucko. What? Where did I say that? As a matter of fact, I specifically said that I, personally, have almost zero debt, and that I pay off my singular credit card every month. I realize that strawmen are easier to argue with, but I’d thank you for not *completely *misrepresenting what I’ve said.
This, on the other hand, I agree with. As I asked, earlier- what is your point in telling the OP that it’s all her fault? If you disagree with the pitting, why are you even in this thread, except to say"Na-na-na-na, it’s all your fault, you bad, bad person, you"?
Is it that we don’t have the right to complain when companies unilaterally change the rules? Is that your point? That we should just willingly bend over and give them our wallets? Sure, the OP agreed to the terms… but when the terms can and do change at the whim of the credit card company, in such a way that the slightest misstep results in more money… at what point do you say, “Ya know, maybe they’re getting a bit out of hand”? I guess, maybe, when it someday affects you.
And you know, re-reading the OP… is the OP complaining that the situation is unfair? No- she’s just saying that she’s not going to do business with them anymore. Why, exactly, do you have a problem with her doing this?
I feel for ya Cookies. I had the same experience with American Express several years ago. I got my first AX green card in 1975 when I was 20 (they were the only ones who would give me a card, heh). We got along famously for decades, I charged things and paid my bill in full every month, no problem. When my kiddies went to college they offered me a new type of credit card that both kids could use and their charges would be delineated by who made them on the bill. Sounded great to me, school fees or if an emergency came up they had a card to charge what they needed, and I could easily see who charged what. Worked fine for a couple of years until I paid the bill a couple of days late (for a brain fart reason) and they hit me with a large late fee and informed me that the interest rate was going to more than double. So I called em up and said, hey there, I’ve been a good customer for decades and the payment was only a couple of days late, can’t you give me a little break here? Nope, company policy, however we will consider lowering the rate in the event it doesn’t happen again in the next 12 months.
So I had the kiddies cut up their cards, I cut up mine, including the original green card, and sent them all back to them with a note of explanation and a check to close the account. Fuck em and fuck Chase too.
@Bricker and niblit; imho it’s poor company policy to fuck your loyal paying customers who make a one time slip. Yes they have the right to do it but they don’t have to do it. That’s why Chase is deservedly being pitted.
As a further anecdote, I just got a notice from my air miles CC that if I should happen to pay late even once the interest rate may go to 29.9%. Since the kiddies got out of college I don’t keep a balance on any credit card anymore so it doesn’t make much difference. However, if I do have a senior moment and they do raise the rate to 29.9% that’s the next card that’s going back. Vote with your feet people.
I understand the sentiment, but not the logic. In a business environment where major regulations are taking effect (now, and in the immediate future), how can we expect banks to act contrary to their economic best interest? I’m not saying that in the long run it was wise for Amex to do what it did to you, sinjin, but I don’t know why so many people expect that this would be the time for their bank to let a late payment slide.
We generally know what the rules are. And we’re aware there’s a major regulatory initiative underway. Do we really think that banks aren’t going to play these things by the book?
I don’t disagree with most of what you lay out. The contract says exactly what they will do. However, a person and/or business doesn’t need to exercise every clause in a contract just because it’s there.
Example. A few years ago I overdrew my account while away from home, on a Thursday or Friday. Thought I had deposited a paycheck that I hadn’t deposited. My bank has a daily fee of something like $30 a day for each day the account is overdrawn. My bank also allows me to use my Debit card while the account is overdrawn up to $100, but then charges a $50 fee for each transaction. And, it counts an attempted cash withdrawl at an ATM as a transaction, even though it doesn’t dispense cash.
So, to make a long story short, by the time I realized I had overdrawn my account, I had racked up close to $300 dollars in fees over the course of four days, for about $40 worth of overdraw. And, even though the bank mails statements daily when you’re over drawn, I wasn’t home to get the mail those days, and didn’t find out I was overdrawn until my card got declined, well into my newly-acquired debt.
I was pretty peeved about it, and went in to my bank and explained the situation. And they reversed the extra fees for the transactions I made during the course of the weekend. No, they didn’t have to, and I don’t think I’d ever ask them to again, but I appreciated that they appreciated my situation.
My bank showed me they valued me as a customer, showed me they can be understanding, and showed me that even though they could (and did) charge large fees for behavior they encourage (why was my card allowed to remain active after I had a negative balance in my account? So that I’ll continue to use it and rack up fees), they’re willing to forgo a small amount of profit to make me a happier and more loyal customer.
Which, is what every business wants you to believe they’ll do. And, sometimes they mean it. Sometimes they don’t. It sounds like in the OP’s case, his bank doesn’t. It doesn’t make them liars, perhaps, I don’t really know what their ad material says or implies. But, it does make them jerks. And, if they had lead me to believe that they’re an institution that’s willing to ‘work with me,’ or somesuch (again, not sure if that describes the OP’s situation), then they are indeed liars, because even though it’s in the contract, the bank is not obligated to raise the rates on a late payment.
If I say to you that I’ll be your friend and am concerned about your well-being, then hand you a contract that allows me to punch you in the face if you don’t greet me with a wave when you see me, I’ve already proved I’m a liar. I look at the OP’s situation similarly. Raising interest rates on a line of credit for a one-time late payment of $41 is punitive and greedy. The OP may have signed the contract, and that’s his responsibility. But the bank has a choice about how to treat their customers.
And what if…indulge me, if you will, in some wild-eyed lefty conjecture…what if gouging customers were part of the business plan? What if some of our corporate citizens deliberately courted and lured the economically disadvantaged into a position wherein they can be bent over a barrel and given a jolly good rogering?
Not that any of our splendid corporate citizens would ever contemplate such a thing. Really, its just another crazy lefty notion. And, of course, such as that would be quite perfectly legal, so questions of ethics can be brushed aside, in honor of the Golden Rule: The Guy That Has the Gold Makes the Rules.
And if the principles of personal responsibility make it ethical for First Pork Bank to whack me for $35 for a ten cent overdraft, doesn’t that mean that AIG et. al. owes us about 15 times the gross economic output for Planet Earth?
I just remembered my first bad experience with a credit card. It was in '95, so no internet access or auto pay yet. I was in the military and just got my first card a year before. I bought a new computer planning to pay it off over about four months. I got a surprise deployment with an uncertain itinerary. I called Citibank and asked how I could deal with it. I was paying much more than the minimum each month, but I didn’t want the service fee if I couldn’t mail a check on time over the next three months. They told me to send them three post dated checks and they would one each month. I did and they cashed all three on the same day, cleaning out my checking account and bouncing the last check. Then the refused to remove the bounced check fee. I canceled my Citibank account as soon as I could pay it off.
What I would LOVE is if I could put penalties on them when they screw up. Not credit my payment in a timely manner, that’s a $50 late fee and you have to lower my rate for a year.
When I screw up, I get the penalty. When they screw up, they don’t get the penalty and I spend several hour on the phone with the bank and the credit card company to NOT take a penalty. If they screw up and I’m not willing to spend a few hours on the phone, I get the penalty anyway.
Wait a minute, am I reading this right? They charged you a fee for not giving you money? By Og, that is the sort of entrepreneurship and innovation that made America what it is today! Praise Moloch!
I like the way you think! 