# You vs. the Spartan army. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010 "2014-09-30T21:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/21 "2014-10-01T04:52:32Z")
The makeup and headdress might help. [Fire - The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown @ TOTP 1968 - YouTube](http://youtu.be/en1uwIzI3SE) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/22 "2014-10-01T05:13:51Z")
Following the slightly modified adage that you don’t fight with the weapons you want, you fit with the ones you have, I picked the M1. I don’t have one, but I’ve shot with one, so I know how to reload the damn thing. You don’t have to kill them all, you just have to clear a hole in the line since they can’t maneuver well. You’ve got the Theban army behind you, and once you start creating a hole, the Spartans are going to panic. The phalanx was only 12 deep, so it wouldn’t be impossible to punch a hole through. The weak point of the phalanx was the right side since each man carried his shield on his left, so I’d start making a hole three or four wide, just to the left of me, creating a new right side directly in front of me. At this battle the Spartans fled, which is an indication that the morale of the middle troops wasn’t that high. A lot of the battles between the Greeks were decided before the engagement when one side broke, and punching a hole where they were one solid line isn’t going to make the non-elite fighters very happy. The battlefield was flat, and with a packed formation, a competent shooter is going to get a pretty high kill ratio. Once the hole opens, and you start widening it, I think you’re going to see the back sides of a lot of Spartans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/23 "2014-10-01T06:07:45Z")
This is why I don’t get into DeLoreans that are not equipped with a mini-gun on portable tri-pod with extra ammo. None of these will be sufficient against either the Spartans or Thebans of that era. They are hardly going to be impressed with only taking out 20 or so. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/24 "2014-10-01T08:02:31Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > None of these will be sufficient against either the Spartans or Thebans of that era. They are hardly going to be impressed with only taking out 20 or so. The OP places you between the armies, so you don’t need to take out the whole army, just enough to tip the balance and make one side run. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/25 "2014-10-01T08:17:18Z")
Against tightly-packed infantry on open terrain, the machine-gun is a no-brainer. The only decision here is between BAR and Bren. I’ll have to go with the Bren - bigger magazine, better rate of fire, more reliable, and it comes with a bipod. The BAR is lighter, but I don’t plan to be maneuvering much. I’ll just find a nice rock, wall of hillock to set it on, wait until they come within 500 meters or so, and open fire in tight, controlled bursts. I’ve never fired a Bren, but I used to carry an FN-MAG, so I think I’ll be able to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/26 "2014-10-01T12:55:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So some of them might get to me while I’m reloading - 300 men is a lot of men to shoot with ANY firearm. Isn’t this exactly the situation a good old-fashioned water-cooled belt-fed machine gun was intended for? Any Maxim, Vickers, Browning or Schwarzlose etc. from WW1 or just before would have no trouble whatsoever mowing down hundreds of men providing it has enough ammunition, they are a reasonable distance away, and the water jacket is full. It would be better even than an MG42 or modern machine gun since you could just fire for pretty much as long as you wanted without worrying about barrel changes. God help you if you needed to move the thing though. Given the choices available, I’d pick the bren for the reasons already mentioned and expect to die very soon. I believe battlefields of that era were typically very small (often the flat bottom of a nice greek valley), so as \*\*mil0 \*\*says you’d be within javelin/sling or rushing distance in short order and that’s not going to go well for a lone person. OTOH if you are positioned up one of the nice steep slopes BESIDE the battlefield I mightl do better. Until someone decides to sneak up behind me and drop a rock on my head or something. Can I specify that my Bren comes with some of the optional accessories, like a [Daimler Dingo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Dingo)? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/27 "2014-10-01T13:11:55Z")
> [@slaphead](#): > > I believe battlefields of that era were typically very small (often the flat bottom of a nice greek valley) According to the link in the OP, between 1/2 and 3/3 of a mile separated the opposing forces at the start of the Battle of Leuctra. That’s more than enough range to do a lot of damage with a machine gun. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/28 "2014-10-01T13:19:16Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This is why I don’t get into DeLoreans that are not equipped with a mini-gun on portable tri-pod with extra ammo. In this scenario, I’d be just as happy if it came equipped with a cattle-catcher. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/29 "2014-10-01T13:54:58Z")
The Bren, for reasons **Alessan** laid out. Plus, it comes with a spare barrel and can be changed much quicker than a BAR. Make every round a tracer and I’ll look to them like a minor avatar of Zeus, throwing lightning bolts from several hundred meters away. Just got to make sure I know how to load the rimmed rounds into the magazines properly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/30 "2014-10-01T13:56:01Z")
Those of you choosing the sub-machine gun (poorly, IMO) ought to remember that the drum magazines on the Thompson were jamming little mofos. If you are limited to stick mags, you’re toast. They will range you and take you down rather quickly. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/31 "2014-10-01T14:08:01Z")
I said the 1903 and keep taking them out at a distance but given my druthers I’d much rather sit in the cave with a Big Box of ammo and an [M-134D-T](http://www.dillonaero.com/content/p/8/catid/1/pid/2/Lightweight_M134D_T) lightweight on a tripod. As the comedian once said, “Problem solved”. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/32 "2014-10-01T14:23:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … > > I have a couple of M-1 Carbines. Sweet little gun. Not much recoil, and pretty accurate. Not a lot of stopping power though. OTOH, they have a 15-rd. magazine and 30-rd. mags are available too. It would be good in closer quarters. Again, I’d rather not be that close. > > I’ve never fired a Garand, and I haven’t gotten round to firing my SMLE, but one of those or the M1903 would be good for shooting from a distance. I have a couple of Mauser K-98s, which are similar. Helluva kick. The Garand carries eight rounds, the SMLE has ten, and the M1903 has five. ISTM that for ease of use and quickness of reloading, the Garand would be the rifle of choice… I pick the Garand. Why? Good all-around gun. It doesn’t shine anyplace specifically but it works in a lot of situations well enough. It’s a semi-auto that should provide decent close-quarters performance, but is powerful and accurate enough to work at a few hundred yards no problem. Bolt-action sniper rifles are too slow for comfort. Nice if you have a sidearm for close-quarters combat, but terrible for facing an army alone. If they get too close, you’re toast. You won’t be able to load fast enough to handle them all. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/33 "2014-10-01T14:39:36Z")
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. But if I could get you a little more modern, I want a H&K/Winchester CAWS (Close Assault Weapons System). With Buck or fleshettes it racks all the harm of a minigun while being easier to shoot and use. And not the wussie Type I ------- I want the Type II that will take a belt through the stock like the Coasties had. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/34 "2014-10-01T15:54:26Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The OP places you between the armies, so you don’t need to take out the whole army, just enough to tip the balance and make one side run. The armies in question in this era do not run. They hold formation. 20 rounds, or even 40 from a Tommy gun, aren’t going to save your ass. Absent something truly awesome that you know how to use, you are toast. Perhaps make a break for the Theban lines with you hands in the air. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/35 "2014-10-01T16:04:56Z")
The OP’s link says the Spartans had 10,000 infantry and 1000 cavalry. So I don’t know where this “300” business is coming from. This isn’t Thermopylae. I’m thinking that no matter what, without a tank, you aren’t going to make it. That OP also mentioned you’re in the middle of a field in Leuctra. Where is everyone finding this cave? You’d be a sitting duck. Your best bet would be to hunker down in the field with a WWII era machine gun (30 cal, did they have M2 .50 cal back then?) and mow down both armies until they scatter. Even then, I would bet you’d get speared or shot with an arrow first. But trying to break through Spartan lines with just a rifle and whatever ammo and grenades you could carry would be suicide. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/36 "2014-10-01T16:31:05Z")
Flamethrower. I agree that the odds of actually being able to single-handedly overcome the Spartans with any of those weapons is very low. I think my best shot would be shock and awe, which the flamethrower has in spades. I’d fire off a few quick bursts and try to convince them that I was Hephaestus, and hope that they don’t call my bluff. Alternatively, if the stack of ammo means that I’d have a big fat pile of grenades, I might go with those instead. Hurling one after another would make quite the demonstration. I imagine it’s much faster to grab, pull, and throw from a pile of pineapples than it is to fire a 7 second burst of holy fire, then spend 90 seconds changing out the canister. In either case, I wouldn’t even have to hit anyone to get my point across, so range is less of an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/37 "2014-10-01T16:36:27Z")
I’m going to take the Browning Grand Puissance. It is light enough to not slow me down or get in the way as I try to unass the Theban-Spartan AO. Presumably, they are there to fight each other, not track me down, so I shouldn’t be the focus of either group’s attention. Getting away is the goal, not wracking up a big body count in my last stand. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/38 "2014-10-01T18:40:45Z")
One, two, _five!!_ IOW, I’m going with the hand grenades. I figure the shock-and-awe quotient will be pretty impressive (should scare the horses entirely out of the battle with the first one), and my range with a hand grenade should be almost theirs with a spear, so unless they get really lucky, I should survive until their survivors finally turn and run. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/39 "2014-10-01T18:52:55Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The OP’s link says the Spartans had 10,000 infantry and 1000 cavalry. So I don’t know where this “300” business is coming from. This isn’t Thermopylae. I’m thinking that no matter what, without a tank, you aren’t going to make it. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The armies in question in this era do not run. They hold formation. 20 rounds, or even 40 from a Tommy gun, aren’t going to save your ass. Absent something truly awesome that you know how to use, you are toast. Perhaps make a break for the Theban lines with you hands in the air. Try to help a time-traveller in need and all I get is grief! You two ingrates get [this](http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000KJoYx2C0X7k/fit=1000x750/9900422.jpg) to fend off the Spartans. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010/40 "2014-10-01T18:54:48Z")
If I had my gun of choice from that era, it would be a M1919 .30 caliber machine gun. But from your choices I would take a Bren. I don’t want the Spartans to get within 100 yards of me. Hopefully I could find a nice high and/or covered spot and put enough rounds into the enemies from hundreds of yards away to scare them off before I took an arrow to a vital organ. Can you put some tracers in every 10th round or so? The light show should be a nice addition to the sound of the gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-vs-the-spartan-army/700010.md?page=3)