# You want a divorce? I'll behead you. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261 "2009-02-17T13:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/41 "2009-02-18T06:51:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is a particularly foolish comment, given that no one is actually making any similar argument. I feel a little bit like explaining it, but you know what they say about having to explain a joke. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/42 "2009-02-18T07:29:10Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I feel a little bit like explaining it, but you know what they say about having to explain a joke. Was that supposed to be a joke? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/43 "2009-02-18T07:32:38Z")
Here the thing always end up pondering. Almost everyone would agree that Western civilization has advanced enormously since the Middle Ages in terms of cultural attitudes, wouldn’t they? Isn’t our present society tremendously more progressive in terms of religious tolerance, scientific knowledge, treatment of women, and general civility? In fact, I don’t think you’d get much argument from anyone if you opined that the Middle Ages culture was generally a backward one compared to ours. Now, when people try to justify the wacky shit that goes on in Muslim cultures (honor killings, stoning rape victims, holding hysterical marches and making death threats over cartoons and teddy bears perceived as “insulting” their prophet), seems like the apologists invariably point to all the wacky shit that Christendom got up to . . . in the Middle Ages. Things that make you go hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/44 "2009-02-18T14:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=wring] In the breakroom with a cleaver? [/QUOTE] _Excellent_, **wring**! Nothing substantive to add to the discussion. This just cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/45 "2009-02-18T14:26:03Z")
I also particularly liked that. Took a second to sink in as being funny – I skimmed it quickly, then read half of the next post before hitting my head on the keyboard and laughing. Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/46 "2009-02-18T14:59:33Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > They both appear to have been fitted up something cruel – and Anne was also done on a dubious charge of plotting to kill Henry, since mere adultery wasn’t _high_ treason and therefore executable – but the point is, I guess, that Henry didn’t want merely divorce by axe but judicial murder for its own sake. Adultery by the Queen consort or by the wife of the king’s son is a form of high treason under the [Treason Act 1351](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom#History:_England_and_Wales): > [@](#): > > A second form of high treason comprehended by the Treason Act 1351 was having sexual intercourse with “the King’s companion, or the King’s eldest daughter unmarried, or the wife of the King’s eldest son and heir.” If the intercourse is not consensual, only the rapist is liable, but if it is consensual, then both parties are liable (as Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard, wives of Henry VIII, discovered to their cost). See also Blackstone, [Book 4, C. 6](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk4ch6.asp): > [@](#): > > 1. THE second species of treason is, “if a man do violate “the king’s companion, or the king’s eldest daughter unmarried, “or the wife of the king’s eldest son and heir.” By the king’s companion is meant his wife; and by violation is understood carnal knowlege, as well without force, as with it: and this is high treason in both parties, if both be consenting; as some of the wives of Henry the eighth by fatal experience evinced. The plain intention of this law is to guard the blood royal from any suspicion of bastardy, whereby the succession to the crown might be rendered dubious ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/47 "2009-02-18T15:30:50Z")
At the risk of interjecting Reason into a pit thread: [Beheading in the name of Islam](http://www.meforum.org/article/713) from Middle East Quarterly. > [@](#): > > Apologetics and Reality > > Some American commentators say that Islamist decapitations are intended as psychological warfare and devoid of any true Islamic content. Imam Muhammad Adam al-Sheikh, head of the Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, for example, claimed incorrectly that “beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran at all.”[5] Asma Afsaruddin, an associate professor of Arabic and Islamic studies at the University of Notre Dame, also misrepresented Islamic theology and history when she told a reporter, “There is absolutely no religious imperative for this.”[6] The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) as well as the American Anti-Arab Discrimination Committee (ADC) have both signed on to a statement that such killings “did not represent the tenets of Islam.”[7] Sam Hamod, former director of the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C., claimed that the Qur’anic passage on beheading unbelievers did not actually mean that people should be killed.[8] Such fulminations have had an effect: the Western news media has, perhaps as a result of political correctness or its own bias, twisted the reality of Islamic history and propagated such revisionism. With such apologetics, Western academics either display basic ignorance of their fields or purposely mislead. The intelligentsia’s denial of any religious roots to the recent spate of decapitation has parallels in the logical back flips and kid-glove treatments in which many professors engaged in order to deny a religious basis for violent jihad.[9] Afsaruddin and Hamod aside, Islamists justify murder and decapitation with both theological citations and historical precedent. > [@](#): > > Decapitation in Islamic Theology > > Groups such as Abu Mus‘ab al-Zarqawi’s Al-Tawhid wa al-Jihad (Unity and Jihad) and Abu ‘Abd Allah al-Hasan bin Mahmud’s Ansar al-Sunna (Defenders of [Prophetic] Tradition)[10] justify the decapitation of prisoners with Qur’anic scripture. Sura (chapter) 47 contains the ayah (verse): “When you encounter the unbelievers on the battlefield, strike off their heads until you have crushed them completely; then bind the prisoners tightly.”[11] The Qur’anic Arabic terms are generally straightforward: kafaru means “those who blaspheme/are irreligious,” although Darb ar-riqab is less clear. Darb can mean “striking or hitting” while ar-riqab translates to “necks, slaves, persons.” With little variation, scholars have translated the verse as, “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”[12] > > For centuries, leading Islamic scholars have interpreted this verse literally. The famous Iranian historian and Qur’an commentator Muhammad b. Jarir at-Tabari (d. 923 C.E.) wrote that “striking at the necks” is simply God’s sanction of ferocious opposition to non-Muslims.[13] Mahmud b. Umar az-Zamakhshari (d. 1143 C.E.), in a major commentary studied for centuries by Sunni religious scholars, suggested that any prescription to “strike at the necks” commands to avoid striking elsewhere so as to confirm death and not simply wound.[14] > > Many recent interpretations remain consistent with those of a millennium ago. In his Saudi-distributed translation of the Qur’an, ‘Abdullah Yusuf ‘Ali (d. 1953) wrote that the injunction to “smite at their necks,” should be taken both literally and figuratively. “You cannot wage war with kid gloves,” Yusuf ‘Ali argued.[15] Muhammad Muhammad Khatib, in a modern Sunni commentary bearing the imprimatur of Al-Azhar university in Cairo, says that while traditionalist Muslims tend to see this passage as only applying to the Prophet’s time, Shi‘ites “think it is a universal precept.” > [@](#): > > Conclusion > > Islamic civilization is not a historical anomaly in its sanction of decapitation.[36] The Roman Empire beheaded citizens (such as the Christian Saint Paul) while they crucified noncitizens (such as Jesus Christ). French revolutionaries employed the guillotine to decapitate opponents. Nevertheless, Islam is the only major world religion today that is cited by both state and non-state actors to legitimize beheadings. And two major aspects of decapitation in an Islamic context should be noted: first, the practice has both Qur’anic and historical sanction. It is not the product of a fabricated tradition. Second, in contradiction to the assertions of apologists, both Muslim and non-Muslim, these beheadings are not simply a brutal method of drawing attention to the Islamist political agenda and weakening opponents’ will to fight. Zarqawi and other Islamists who practice decapitation believe that God has ordained them to obliterate their enemies in this manner. Islam is, for this determined minority of Muslims, anything but a “religion of peace.” It is, rather, a religion of the sword with the blade forever at the throat of the unbeliever. But read the whole article though. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/48 "2009-02-18T15:46:12Z")
You folks are familiar with the meaning of “accused”, right? It’s not the same as “proven” or “convicted”. On the other hand, reading the linked article, it’s hard to posit a scenario in which the husband isn’t guilty. Boy, the police chief doesn’t sound too brilliant. ETA: Lots of guys kill their women when they want to leave them. They don’t usually cut their heads off, though. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/49 "2009-02-18T16:01:27Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > There is no way, IMHO, that this was simply a “crime of passion.” Whatever the legal definition, in a rage you would do something instinctual to harm another person. BEHEADING THEM IS NOT INSTINCTUAL. There is no fucking way we evolved a tendency to behead those we love. Such a gene would not survive in the gene pool. Beat the shit out of them, sure, but beheading someone is as premeditated as it gets. I recommend you read _Dr Tatiana’s Sex Advice to All Creation_ by Olivia Judson, an excellent book on the evolutionary biology of sex. She points out that it actually might make some evolutionary sense or be neutral to take the “if I can’t have you, nobody can” approach to a mate. In terms of being able to propagate your genes, someone dying is the same as them never having sex with you again. ETA: If the possibility of being killed for leaving makes it more likely that a partner will not leave you, it becomes even more understandable why this might happen. Of course, the standard disclaimer applies here about this not making it OK to kill someone just because they won’t have sex with you, even if it is understandable from an evolutionary perspective. Now, if you wanted to argue that the beheading was probably premeditated because most of us don’t have anything lying around at our work that we could use to behead someone, I’d agree with _that_. I’ll admit I don’t know much about running a radio station, though- maybe you need to have something like that around to do the job. > [@Koxinga](#): > > Now, when people try to justify the wacky shit that goes on in Muslim cultures (honor killings, stoning rape victims, holding hysterical marches and making death threats over cartoons and teddy bears perceived as “insulting” their prophet), seems like the apologists invariably point to all the wacky shit that Christendom got up to . . . in the Middle Ages. I’ll admit that some Muslim societies do have problems that other societies don’t. But people killing their spouses because the spouse wants to leave isn’t one of them. That happens in lots of different cultures and religions all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/50 "2009-02-18T16:13:04Z")
People like irony, whatever the situation. I don’t think it’s necessarily prejudiced to connect the goal of his company to a quite counterproductive murder. But it takes about 20 seconds to figure out how sadly ordinary his actions were in America. From the [Bureau of Justice Statistics](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm) 10 percent of homicides between 1976 and 2005 have involved an intimate relationship between the victim and offender (that’s almost 65,000 – with an additional 209,000 undetermined). ``` * About one third of female murder victims were killed by an intimate. * About 3% of male murder victims were killed by an intimate. * Of all female murder victims, the proportion killed by an intimate has been increasing. * Of male murder victims, the proportion killed by an intimate has dropped. ``` ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/51 "2009-02-18T16:20:50Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I’ll admit that some Muslim societies do have problems that other societies don’t. But people killing their spouses because the spouse wants to leave isn’t one of them. That happens in lots of different cultures and religions all over the world. Oh come the fuck on! Muslims and honor killings go together like adultery and really sharp heavy stones. I’ve had to rush through Birmingham (UK) changing trains with a Muslim girl who had run away from home because if we were spotted her family would try and kill me. It’s a big problem in any European country with a Muslim population. And look what is happening in Iraq now Saddam isn’t there to brutally enforce secularism. [Honor Killings on the Rise](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/30/honor-killings-on-the-ris_n_147194.html) > [@](#): > > Authorities in the southern Iraqi city of Basra have admitted they are powerless to prevent ‘honour killings’ in the city following a 70 per cent increase in religious murders during the past year. > > There has been no improvement in conviction rates for these killings. So far this year, 81 women in the city have been murdered for allegedly bringing shame on their families. Only five people have been convicted. [There’s an international campaign and everything.](http://stophonourkillings.com/) > [@](#): > > Over 5000 women and girls are killed every year by family members in so-called ‘honour killings’, according to the UN. These crimes occur where cultures believe that a woman’s unsanctioned sexual behaviour brings such shame on the family that any female accused or suspected must be murdered. Reasons for these murders can be as trivial as talking to a man, or as innocent as suffering rape. Honour killing and Islam goes hand in hand and no - there is no point trying to parse some artificial distinction between some ‘Islam’ and ‘society’. That’s the whole point of Islam - it is a total way of life and ‘society’ and religious ideology has become so intertwined the distinction is meaningless. Honour killings are done in the name of Islam so it is Islamic regardless of apologist parsing of the mumbo-jumbo. [Barbaric Honor Killings become weapon of subjugation](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/barbaric-honour-killings-become-the-weapon-to-subjugate-women-in-iraq-816649.html) > [@](#): > > At first glance Shawbo Ali Rauf appears to be slumbering on the grass, her pale brown curls framing her face, her summer skirt spread about her. But the awkward position of her limbs and the splattered blood reveal the true horror of the scene. > > The 19-year-old Iraqi was, according to her father, murdered by her own in-laws, who took her to a picnic area in Dokan and shot her seven times. **Her crime was to have an unknown number on her mobile phone**. Her “honour killing” is just one in a grotesque series emerging from Iraq, where activists speak of a “genocide” against women in the name of religion. > > In the latest such case, it was reported yesterday that a 17-year-old girl, Rand Abdel-Qader, was stabbed to death last month by her father for becoming infatuated with a British soldier serving in southern Iraq. > > In Basra alone, police acknowledge that 15 women a month are murdered for breaching Islamic dress codes. Campaigners insist it is a conservative figure. > > Violence against women is rampant, rising every day with the power of the militias. Beheadings, rapes, beatings, suicides through self-immolation, genital mutilation, trafficking and child abuse masquerading as marriage of girls as young as nine are all on the increase. Shot for having an unknown number on her phone! Savages following a barbarian ideology. And again - no-one bother coming in with the same old ‘No True Scotsman’ arguments. Religions are what the religious do in its name regardless of the underlying mumbo-jumbo. If the guy killed his wife it was no coincidence it was a beheading. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/52 "2009-02-18T16:27:12Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I’ll admit that some Muslim societies do have problems that other societies don’t. Such as…? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/53 "2009-02-18T16:36:06Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Oh come the fuck on! > > Muslims and honor killings go together like adultery and really sharp heavy stones. Then why is it so rare in Indonesia and sub-Saharan Africa? > [@](#): > > Such as…? There is no perfect society with no problems, but different societies have different problems. Honor killings are a problem in some Arabic societies, and are not a problem in other societies. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/54 "2009-02-18T16:55:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Adultery by the Queen consort or by the wife of the king’s son is a form of high treason under the [Treason Act 1351](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom#History:_England_and_Wales): > See also Blackstone, [Book 4, C. 6](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk4ch6.asp): You look like just the man to go fix the Wikipedia article, then. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/55 "2009-02-18T16:58:47Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Then why is it so rare in Indonesia and sub-Saharan Africa? I dunno but it sure as hell isn’t BECAUSE they are predominantly Islamic is it. In fact I would say it is because until recently Indonesia has tried very hard to stamp out Islamic fundamentalism. And I refer you again to my axiom. If the religious do something in the name of their religion, that is where the buck stops. Sharia Law encodes the oppression of women. i knew you’d come back with Indonesia. Apologists always do - it being one of the very few examples you can point to. The question I’d ask is why honor killings are not so widespread (yet) despite it being a large Muslim nation. The answer I’d give is that since 1975 they’ve been too busy committing genocide in East Timor and murdering their own people by the hundreds of thousands so if I were you I’d think more than twice about holding them up as some sort of shining example of anything. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/56 "2009-02-18T17:02:43Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > There is no perfect society with no problems, but different societies have different problems. Honor killings are a problem in some Arabic societies, and are not a problem in other societies. Birmingham is in Arabia now is it? Honor killings are a problem thoughout Europe, wherever in fact (or by shocking, inexplicable coincidence) there are large Muslim ‘communities’, which to give you a clue - mainly do not come from any Arab country. Mainly Pakistan, Bangladesh and India - non arabic countries with massive problems with honor killings and Islamic terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/57 "2009-02-18T19:14:00Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > There is no perfect society with no problems, but different societies have different problems. Honor killings are a problem in some Arabic societies, and are not a problem in other societies. What problems do you see with Muslim societies? Muslim, not Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/58 "2009-02-19T04:01:30Z")
**The Flying Dutchman** , and **tagos** , I’m not sure what you think you are establishing with tales of decapitation, generally associated with warfare: that Genghis Khan was Muslim, perhaps? At the times your stories occurred, decapitation was a common method of execution that really bore no religious significance. (The Jews executed for “conspiracy” were not tried under Shariah, but captured in a siege of warfare and condemned for “treachery.”) **tagos** , we have dealt with your “honor killing” fixation in earlier threads. Honor killing is a horrible vice that occurs among several, (but hardly all), Muslim socieies, but it is hardly Islamic in nature. It occurs among the Christians of Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, and Sicily. (It has been known to be carried out by Christians in Ireland.) It is a serious problem among Hindus in India and has been known to occur among other patriarchal societies of various religions. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/59 "2009-02-19T10:15:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **tagos** , we have dealt with your “honor killing” fixation in earlier threads. Honor killing is a horrible vice that occurs among several, (but hardly all), Muslim socieies, but it is hardly Islamic in nature. It occurs among the Christians of Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, and Sicily. (It has been known to be carried out by Christians in Ireland.) It is a serious problem among Hindus in India and has been known to occur among other patriarchal societies of various religions. It is Islamic in nature. Cite provided to show already. Islam and tribal societies have been intertwined since Islam’s inception. They are now one and the institutionalised oppression of explicitly done in the name of Islam. It is Islamic - the weak arguments of its apologists notwithstanding. That other cultures infected by religious insanity engage in vile practices is only an argument for the human race growing the fuck up and letting go its assorted monstrous fairy tales. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261/60 "2009-02-19T11:02:54Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > It is Islamic in nature. Cite provided to show already. Islam and tribal societies have been intertwined since Islam’s inception. They are now one and the institutionalised oppression of explicitly done in the name of Islam. It is Islamic - the weak arguments of its apologists notwithstanding. You should get a job writing fiction with that sort of overheated imagination. If it is “Islamic,” you should be able to show a lot more incidences of it in Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, and you should not be seeing it among Christians and Hindus. There is a correspondence between honor killing and tribalism, but linking tribalism to Islam alone is silly. [This anti-Islam site](http://kenlydell.typepad.com/islamic_evil/muslim_honor_killings/) notes: > [@](#): > > Honor killing is currently virtually unknown in Muslim sub-Saharan Africa, Bangladesh and Indonesia. It is most commonly practiced by Muslim Arabs, Kurds, Turks, Afghans and Pakistanis and their immigrant populations abroad. It now occurs in every Western country burdened with a Muslim immigrant subculture. > > Nowhere in the Koran or Hadith (biographies of Muhammed) will you find scripture or text that legitimizes honor killing. In fact, it is forbidden. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-a-divorce-ill-behead-you/486261.md?page=4)