# "You want me to chill where?" or The Great Human Shield Bailout **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783 "2003-03-03T17:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/21 "2003-03-04T02:15:59Z")
Now wait a minute. They went over to stay at civilian locations (Schools, hospitals, etc), to try and give extra incentive on the US military to double-check their targets and make _sure_ they weren’t targeting some civilian target (It’s happened before. Remember that Afghan wedding?). Then Iraq tells them they can only stay at high-risk infrastructure targets that Iraq considers vital to the war effort (Including power plants that are just about _part_ of a military base). Targets they did not ever intend to protect. And instead of compromising and doing what Iraq tells them to do, they leave, since they can’t acomplish what they were trying to do… And they’re getting berated for this? First they’re traitors because they’re “helping Iraq” (They weren’t, they were trying to protect civilians), and now they’re being called cowards for _not_ “helping Iraq?” Or being too “cowardly” to stick to their principles (Which is also untrue, since their principles were _not_ to protect Iraqi military targets)? That’s kinda fucked up, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/22 "2003-03-04T02:26:12Z")
No, they are getting berated because many posters on this board predicted this is exactly what would happen. Iraq would force them to guard non-civilian targets. They are getting berated because any fool could see that this is what was going to happen. Actually, no, apparently not any fool. ---
**Author:** ![SRB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SRB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SRB)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/23 "2003-03-04T02:44:31Z")
"well, we’re taking our T-shirts that say SPEED BUMPS and going home if we can’t play by OUR rules. " What a hoot!!! ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/24 "2003-03-04T02:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Goo \* > \*\*Didn’t a lot of them express the wish to stay in hospitals, schools, etc and so be shielding the average Iraqi, not weapons factories ? I can understand being prepared to be a civilian shield but not prepared to be a military installation shield, even if it’s not something I’d personally do. Or am I missing something ? \*\* It’s not so much that they should have done as Saddam & company asked, but rather they shouldn’t have gone in the first place, since they were shielding what appears to be, by all accounts, a strawman. As illustrated by **Beagle** , not even the Iraqi government agrees with the would-be shields with respect to their stated mission. That is, even the Iraqi government feels the risk of the intended sites being targeted is remote at best, so there’s no real point to these folks even being in Iraq. Unless, of course, they want to work for Saddam…which they refused. Either way, then, it’s kind of a wasted effort. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/25 "2003-03-04T04:42:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Remember that Afghan wedding? Not to rehash this old nugget, but remember how the aircraft thought they were being fired on? Wedding custom or not, don’t you think you might think twice about getting a bunch of your friends to fire into the air when you know combat patrols are flying? Sheesh. Oh, and just to anticipate the other standard objection - small arms fire has been known to bring planes down before…especially concentrated fire. They thought they were in danger, they thought they had reason to think they were in danger, they reacted. Terrible that the situation happened, but it’s really hard for me to get my dander up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/26 "2003-03-04T04:46:27Z")
Ah, I meant to post this as well, but I was still holding a freshly-bathed and drippy kitten at the time. If anyone has new information on the aforementioned case, I’d like to see it. Here endeth the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/27 "2003-03-04T05:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > 68-year-old Godfrey Meynell, a former High Sheriff of Derbyshire, who admitted that he was leaving out of “cold fear”. This one had me rolling :snif: ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/28 "2003-03-04T05:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _From the article_ > It heightened fears among some peace activists that they could be stationed at non-civilian sites. Whoa whoa whoa! You mean the Iraqi government intended to use them in a manner they didn’t agree with? Not in _my_Iraq! Must be lies. The Iraqi government lets _everyone_ choose. Why, their election says it all. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/29 "2003-03-04T06:38:22Z")
I am Jack’s total lack of surprise. Personally, I think that they should be **forced** to stay in Iraq! If the war does start, then they’ll be vaporized and thus prevented from contaminating the gene pool any further. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/30 "2003-03-04T06:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*Oh, and just to anticipate the other standard objection - small arms fire has been known to bring planes down before…especially concentrated fire. They thought they were in danger, they thought they had reason to think they were in danger, they reacted. Terrible that the situation happened, but it’s really hard for me to get my dander up about it. \*\* The Afghani’s have a pretty good track record of doing that too. I remember watching video of them shooting down a Soviet helicopter with nothing more than AK-47’s. It took 'em a few minutes, but they brought that bird down. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/31 "2003-03-04T06:56:03Z")
They human shields bailed not when they were told to guard military targets but when they were told to guard civilian infrastructure targets. The US has been accused of war crimes for targeting civilian infrastructure by Ramsey Clark, a leading crank in the peace movement. If these folks were really willing to risk for their principles they would have no problem with civilian infrastructure targets. I’d go sit in the power plant. I think we have a new bomb which temporarily disables the grid by shooting out wires (or something) without doing a lot of damage. It still makes me laugh that the _Iraqis_ had to point out to the useful idiots / human shields that the US doesn’t bomb civilian areas except by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/32 "2003-03-04T07:52:18Z")
I’m glad these folks wised up. ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/33 "2003-03-04T09:11:35Z")
Jester > [@](#): > > A leading Italian author yesterday called on the Pope to go to Baghdad as a human shield. > > Writing in the Rome newspaper La Repubblica, Luigi Malerba launched an “urgent appeal” to the Pope, who is known for his opposition to a war, to travel to Iraq to ward off an American-led attack. > > “That which human shield volunteers have gone to Iraq to do,” he argued, “John Paul II could do with much greater authority.” Mr Malerba, 76, suggested that senior Vatican leaders could also act as shields elsewhere in Iraq. > > “It’s a huge thing to ask,” he wrote, “but history is decided by extreme gestures. The last hope of peace lies in the Pope’s hands.” Cunning plan methinks. He looks like a walking corpse to me…just tell him he’s in the Vatican movie theatre watching a war film;) ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/34 "2003-03-04T09:21:22Z")
Umm… hospitals may be low risk, and air fields high risk, but Saddam’s saying so, while ironic, is hardly a clinching argument? He’d say ‘get thee to the air field’ however much trouble a hospital was in, from what I know of him. (OK, loses some propaganada points, but he gets an airfield) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/35 "2003-03-04T11:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Darwin’s Finch \* > \*\* > As illustrated by **Beagle** , not even the Iraqi government agrees with the would-be shields with respect to their stated mission. That is, even the Iraqi government feels the risk of the intended sites being targeted is remote at best…_\* Or alternatively, the Iraqi government couldn’t care less about schools and hospitals, isn’t worried about how at risk they are and is happy to protect its power, army bases and infrastructure at their expense. They want the human shields to protect their power, not Iraqi civilians. Which, as has been said, could have been (and was) predicted by many. There’s still a part of me that thinks it’s a splendidly Quixotic gesture though. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/36 "2003-03-04T16:28:51Z")
Re: the Pope Actually, having had two grandparents die of Parkinson’s, I can assure you that JPII’s mind is fine even though it’s trapped inside that body. I was able to hold absolutely coherent conversations with my grands until they could no longer physically talk. Still, him–or anybody–going as a human shield to prop up the dictator? Wronger than a thing that is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/37 "2003-03-04T16:59:39Z")
Shield: “Hi, were here to act as Human Shields! Can we insure the safety of civilians?” Sadam: “Sure, you get to protect the orphanage for us. Thanks!” Shield: “Okay! Sounds great! Where is it?” Sadam: “Forth floor of the Biological Weapons Building” * * * Fagjunk Theology: Not just for sodomite propagandists anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/38 "2003-03-04T17:15:42Z")
I wonder why the Iraqis passed up the chance to go for the twofer - get a shield killed in a school or hospital by American bombing? Simple, as this is only remotely likely to happen, it renders even useful idiots not so useful. If the Iraqis thought that they could get any shields bombed by placing them in legitimate hospitals or schools, what would be the downside (none) to letting that happen? The upside, of course, is international condemnation of the US (to the extent that can be increased), and a possible stop to the war (Highway of Death). The Iraqis were afraid that these UIs might actually learn something about Iraq or how the US conducts a war. Can’t let that happen. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/39 "2003-03-04T17:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chandeleur \* > \*\*What?! Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the… Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?HELL, NO! And it aint over now! For when the goin’ gets tough,…the tough get going! Who’s with me!? LET’S GO! C’MON! OOOOOOOOOOOO! \*\* “Forget it, he’s on a roll.” ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783/40 "2003-03-04T19:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*Not to rehash this old nugget, but remember how the aircraft thought they were being fired on? Wedding custom or not, don’t you think you might think twice about getting a bunch of your friends to fire into the air when you know combat patrols are flying? > > Sheesh. > > Oh, and just to anticipate the other standard objection - small arms fire has been known to bring planes down before…especially concentrated fire. They thought they were in danger, they thought they had reason to think they were in danger, they reacted. Terrible that the situation happened, but it’s really hard for me to get my dander up about it. \*\* I can’t help but be reminded of this: [http://www.theonion.com/onion3906/iraq\_kentucky\_vie.html](http://www.theonion.com/onion3906/iraq_kentucky_vie.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-want-me-to-chill-where-or-the-great-human-shield-bailout/158783.md?page=3)