# "You would actually think it was a normal tourist visit" \[Jan 6, 2021 Quote\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 14, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093 "2021-05-14T17:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/102 "2021-05-24T15:29:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But “intentions” on the part of how many people? A few Proud Boys emailing each other doesn’t characterize a crowd of ten thousand people most of whom were completely unafilliated with them (or anyone else). Unless you’re specifically looking to make that characterization. We also have what happened that morning – Trump (and others) speaking to the crowd, telling them to go to the Capitol and “show strength” and whatever. Maybe not all of the crowd intended from the beginning to break windows and assault cops, but once the tip of the spear of that crowd started doing that, anyone who remained and crawled through that broken glass can quite reasonably be assumed to have been onboard with these activities. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/103 "2021-05-24T15:30:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t see the relevance of any of this. No two things are exactly alike And yet you keep bringing up George Floyd over and over and over again, instead of discussing the January Insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/104 "2021-05-24T15:31:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Yes, it was likely only a few bad apples that injured those ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY police officers. How many people does it take to injure a police officer? One guy with pepper (or bear) spray can do a lot. I mean, I’m not suggesting it was only three guys or something, but that it was a small minority of the crowd. > [@Gyrate](#): > > And is it your understanding that all the charges that have been made are all the charges that will be made? Probably most. As I said, it’s 4 1/2 months. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/105 "2021-05-24T15:33:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe not all of the crowd intended from the beginning to break windows and assault cops, but once the tip of the spear of that crowd started doing that, anyone who remained and crawled through that broken glass can quite reasonably be assumed to have been onboard with these activities. OK, IMHO that’s a dubious assumption. (Similarly, I wouldn’t assume anyone present at a George Floyd riot was onboard with looting.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/106 "2021-05-24T15:33:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How many people does it take to injure a police officer? One guy with pepper (or bear) spray can do a lot That is not what happened, and you _know_ that is what happened. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/107 "2021-05-24T15:35:46Z")
How is that a dubious assumption? I’d make the same assumption for the rare violence at or around a George Floyd protest – if someone breaks windows and starts to loot, then I’ll assume anyone else who crawls through those broken windows is also okay with breaking windows/looting. If someone wasn’t comfortable with this, they would have left/stayed away. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/108 "2021-05-24T15:35:57Z")
Here are your words-Have you forgotten them already? > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t see the relevance of any of this. No two things are exactly alike ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/109 "2021-05-24T15:37:19Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > To me the biggest difference is pondering the answer to this question: Would Chauvin have been convicted of anything if there had been no violent protests? I’m not sure I understand your point. But yes, Chauvin would have been convicted if there had been no violent protests. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/110 "2021-05-24T15:40:41Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But yes, Chauvin would have been convicted if there had been no violent protests. Would he have been? There’s a huge thread in the Pit about cops misbehaving and getting away with it until called out. The calling out has ramped up exponentially with the advent of cell phones that can take videos and social media to broadcast said videos. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/111 "2021-05-24T15:41:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK, IMHO that’s a dubious assumption [that anyone who crawled through broken windows was on board with storming the capitol]. Similarly, I wouldn’t assume anyone present at a George Floyd riot was onboard with looting. You really don’t see an important distinction between someone simply being present in a crowd where some people are breaking the law and crawling through a broken window, and going through police barricades, to storm the capitol? Come on now. I want to be respectful because it’s great to have someone here advocating for the Republican position, because, as disingenuous as it is, plenty of Americans are fooled by this stuff, and it’s good to fully talk it out. But I’m finding it hard to believe you really think these things are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/112 "2021-05-24T15:43:44Z")
To avoid this hijack further I’ve created a new thread here: [Would Chauvin have been convicted of anything if the BLM protests hadn't involved violence?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-chauvin-have-been-convicted-of-anything-if-the-blm-protests-hadnt-involved-violence/942797) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/113 "2021-05-24T15:51:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You really don’t see an important distinction between someone simply being present in a crowd where some people are breaking the law and crawling through a broken window, and going through police barricades, to storm the capitol? Come on now. There’s a huge distinction between those two things. But that’s not what’s being compared. What we’ve been discussing in this thread is that - per the OP - there is also video of people entering the capitol “just walking between the ropes and stanchions”. It’s those people who are more comparable to demonstrators in an also-violent George Floyd rally. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/114 "2021-05-24T15:54:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What we’ve been discussing in this thread is that - per the OP - there is also video of people entering the capitol “just walking between the ropes and stanchions”. Right, those people who walked through broken doors and broken police barricades. You really think some people walked in without noticing the commotion? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/115 "2021-05-24T15:57:42Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Right, those people who walked through broken doors and broken police barricades. What’s your basis for this claim? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/116 "2021-05-24T15:58:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (Similarly, I wouldn’t assume anyone present at a George Floyd riot was onboard with looting.) Please. Stop this. You keep bringing up the completely unrelated events of the summer, which were precipitated by the murder of a man by police officers, and presenting those events to somehow justify the Capitol riot. It doesn’t even make sense. It’s merely an attempt to distract and deflect. It should be beneath you. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/117 "2021-05-24T16:00:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What’s your basis for this claim? Seriously? Have you not seen the video of people smashing windows and climbing through them? Providing a cite in response to your question would be like providing a cite for the claim that the sun comes up in the morning. Why are you even doing this? Do you actually think you’re going to persuade anyone? Seriously. I don’t get it. What are you trying to do? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/118 "2021-05-24T16:03:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What we’ve been discussing in this thread is that - per the OP - there is also video of people entering the capitol “just walking between the ropes and stanchions”. That’s a strawman, the OP was NOT making a point about there being video of people in the capitol that were just walking around between the ropes and stanchions. The point he was making, or rather the question he was asking was who would actually believe that this person [that he quoted] is telling the truth. To paraphrase another poster. It would be showing a video of 9/11 and suggesting it was ‘just a normal day in NY’…as long as you just saw 2 minutes of footage from early in the morning. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s those people who are more comparable to demonstrators in an also-violent George Floyd rally. Now why would you bring that up after very, very clearly stating, and I’ll quote: > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t see the relevance of any of this. No two things are exactly alike. You can’t keep bringing up George Floyd, but then ask why everyone else keeps bringing him when they reply to you. Again, this is arguing in bad faith. You’re certainly not going to change any minds this way. If anything, people will simply dig their heels in further. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/119 "2021-05-24T16:20:37Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Again, this is arguing in bad faith. I never argue in bad faith, and have not done so here. But as indicated above, once you think I’m arguing in bad faith, then there’s no point in continuing to discuss the issue. Which is a shame because I think you’re a cut above most posters here - which is why I addressed your earlier post - but so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/120 "2021-05-24T16:22:42Z")
There’s just no time to address the actual point of _why_ it appears that you’re arguing in bad faith. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/121 "2021-05-24T16:37:28Z")
There’s time, but that’s not my thing. If someone asks about ostensible discrepancies in things I’ve said, I’m always glad to explain, but once I’m assumed to be arguing in bad faith, then there’s no real point. But speaking of time, do you have the time to back up your claim that all those who entered the capitol did so through broken doors and broken police barricades? It seemed important at the time you made the claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=7)