# "You would actually think it was a normal tourist visit" \[Jan 6, 2021 Quote\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 14, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093 "2021-05-14T17:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/142 "2021-05-24T17:57:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If there were members of Congress colluding with insurrectionists (i.e. sharing the layout or otherwise aiding/abetting them before or during the insurrection), a Congressional investigation would greatly increase the chances of discovering this. This is not some sort of secret or anything. This was actually a pretty high profile charge thrown out by some Democratic congresspeople right after the riots, and referred by them to law enforcement. If there were any truth at all to it, it would come out from normal law enforcement investigations. (And frankly, if there were any truth to it at all, it would almost certainly have come out by now.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/143 "2021-05-24T17:59:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …and it’s reasonable to assume the charges after 4 1/2 month represent a good percentage of the actual crimes committed. “We got most of the insurrectionists, that should be good enough.” Is that really an acceptable standard for protecting democracy? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/144 "2021-05-24T17:59:39Z")
Only if the evidence is very strong for some specific criminal charge. If a Congressperson engaged in some highly unethical, but possibly not criminal, behavior on Jan 6th, it might not come out without a Congressional investigation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/145 "2021-05-24T18:01:27Z")
Further, a Congressional investigation is the only likely pathway to have any chance of determining what President Trump said and did on Jan 6th. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/146 "2021-05-24T19:19:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I also addressed the video, in noting that the videos circulating would naturally focus on the violent encounters, even if those were actually a small percentage what actually happened. (Do you disagree with this? If so, why?) If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove it, it’s not on the other person to disprove it. Instead of making a statement, asking someone if they disagree and asking them why they disagree, how about you just back up your own statement? In other words, you can’t just make a statement and say ‘prove me wrong’. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/147 "2021-05-24T19:39:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I also addressed the video, in noting that the videos circulating would naturally focus on the violent encounters, even if those were actually a small percentage what actually happened. (Do you disagree with this? If so, why?) People have addressed the videos of this summer’s protests, and noted that the videos circulating would naturally focus on the violent encounters, even if those were actually a small percentage what actually happened. (Do you disagree with this? If so, why?) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/148 "2021-05-24T20:14:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > OK. I would note again the video cited by the OP of this thread. Also, the OP of [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-there-situations-where-saying-a-cop-let-me-do-it-is-a-legal-defense-against-prosecution/933327). > > From the video I’ve seen, there was an enormous amount of noise and commotion from people shouting all sorts of things, and I highly doubt if everyone would hear glass breaking especially over a large area. Perhaps more importantly, I don’t think the crowd arrived at nearly the same time, and many people arrived after the capitol had already been breached, at which time the police had retreated and the doors were open and people could peacefully enter. So what? I don’t understand why you think that’s important. I’ve read the stories of the mostly peaceful protests\* this summer and there were people that were arrested that came to the protest fully intending to protest peacefully, did protest peacefully for some time, then at some point got “caught up” in the violence and ended up participating in it. And they ended up facing serious federal charges, even though they had never been in trouble before. It’s just that they aren’t whining in the media about how law-abiding and white they are, how “they” aren’t criminals. Here’s a news flash for those snowflakes —- everyone in prison was a law-abiding citizen until they broke the law. We get it. They didn’t storm the breakfast buffet in their hotel. They didn’t beat up cops on the way to hear Trump speak. Some of them may not have been violent when they first walked into the Capitol. I just don’t get why you think it matters. Although I do place the lion’s share of the blame on Trump and the rally organizers. I believe they held the rally with every expectation that violence would ensue and that it was their ticket to keeping Trump in power. But I don’t think they expected them to stop the certification by storming the Capitol. I think they expected a significant counter-protester presence and were looking to incite bipartisan violence that would allow them to declare martial law, and blame everything on “antifa” and “the left”. When no counter-protesters showed, there was nothing standing between the angry crazed mob they’d whipped into a frenzy and the Capitol, and no “antifa” around to shoulder the blame. Whoops, big miscalculation on their part. They couldn’t declare martial law and their stupid coup was foiled. You know, time flies in politics and 5 months ago can feel like ancient history, but try to remember way back to January 7th. Remember how horrified Republicans were at what they had wrought with their Stop The Steal bullshit? Remember how Loeffler and Perdue immediately conceded the elections they had lost that morning? Remember how Lindsay tried to break up with Trump? Remember Mitch telling everyone to vote their conscience?” Remember how Trump had the power to fully pardon everyone and didn’t? That was before they rewrote history. \*yes, I’m going with mostly peaceful. There were 5 racial justice protests in my not very large city that were all peaceful. Similarly, there were multiple protests in pretty much every city in the US, hundreds if not thousands of protests, and very few of them became violent. I would have no objection to investigating the violent protests, in fact I’d like to see them investigated because there are several known cases of the violence being instigated by right-wing provocateurs and I suspect that dynamic was more widespread than we know. But it should be separated from the January 6th investigations. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/149 "2021-05-24T20:19:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Whatever the percentages, the George Floyd riots were a hugely violent deal. They caused [$1B to $2B in insurable losses](https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html) (possibly more). That’s a big high impact deal. But people who are sympathetic to the broader aims of the protests prefer to constantly emphasize the non-violent percentages, because they are sympathetic to the cause and don’t want the violence to dominate the image of these protests. Except- who started the violence in the Floyd protests? Black Blok Anarchists, white supremacists, professional looters, and even the police themselves, etc. Not very often was it the peaceful BLM protestors who organized the event. _They did not want violence._ Who started the violence on Jan 6th? The same people who organized the event. They organized and planned the violence. _They wanted violence._ and as iiandyiii said > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How about focusing on this: the aims of the George Floyd protests (reduce police mistreatment of black people) are positive, noble, and in keeping with the best traditions of America, while the aims of the Jan 6 insurrection were to overturn a lawful election and do violence to public officials (i.e. "hang Mike Pence), which are the opposite of positive, noble, and in keeping with the best traditions of America? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/150 "2021-05-24T20:22:59Z")
If by the capitol _building_ you are almost certainly correct, although a couple of people who wanted to record the violence did follow along. Maybe 1% or so. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/151 "2021-05-24T20:38:23Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This seems silly to me. I suppose it’s not out of the realm of possiblity that it congress inverstigates there would be more charges. Then after that, if the CIA investigates, maybe there would be even more charges. And if after that the Illuminati investigates, perhaps even more. > > But the point is that this was a very publicly done crime and the agencies which are charged with investigating and prosecuting crimes did the investigation, most likely with high priority, and it’s reasonable to assume the charges after 4 1/2 month represent a good percentage of the actual crimes committed. You do know the FBI has a website, right? That website has photos of about 375 people they are looking to identify (and probably arrest and charge). The majority of them have not yet been arrested. None of the photos are of people peacefully walking around the Capitol. Many of the photos show the perp committing violence. > **[Capitol Violence | Federal Bureau of Investigation](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/capitol-violence)** > > The FBI is seeking to identify individuals involved in the violent activities that occurred at the U.S. Capitol and surrounding areas on January 6, 2021. View photos and related information here. If you have any information to provide, visit... Many of these people, when identified, might supply further information regarding anyone that organized and funded their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/152 "2021-05-24T23:25:10Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I would not personally be against an investigation of the George Floyd protests. As long as it has similar subpoena rules to at least reduce the chance of it becoming a circus. Heck, investigate police brutality along the way. Yes. We should investigate the isolated violence that happened at the protests. I bet we’d find that much of it was caused by right wing terrorist groups. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/153 "2021-05-25T00:23:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How does all this compare with ubiquitous media references to the “mostly peaceful” George Floyd riots? (And have there been any comparable threads about that?) > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t see the relevance of any of this. No two things are exactly alike. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s those people who are more comparable to demonstrators in an also-violent George Floyd rally. _ **Moderating** _ This not only looks like arguing in bad faith indeed, but it’s also a hijack comparing the George Floyd protests to the subject of the OP. No warning at this time, but discontinue this tactic. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/154 "2021-05-25T14:38:29Z")
I follow a reddit forum that is all about the aftermath of the Jan 6th insurrection. If you could get to the first day of that sub it’s actually quite heartening to see how many of those fine upstanding citizens have been identified since then. > **[r/CapitolConsequences](https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitolConsequences/)** > > r/CapitolConsequences: This is a Heavily Moderated Sub. This sub was created to document information about those who chose to "storm" the Capitol … ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/155 "2021-05-25T16:41:51Z")
I’ve been following that Reddit sub for a while, but I don’t find it heartening at all. I find it incredibly disappointing …especially in light of how FEW of the rioters featured on the FBI page, with multiple photos that should make them immediately recognizable to anyone that knows them, have been arrested. Yeah, they seem to pick up a couple of them a week, but there are HUNDREDS of photos of people that have not been apprehended and some of the photos have been up for months. And there seems to be a paucity of news stories regarding the insurrection and investigation. That Reddit sub is very active and a good aggregator of those stories, and there just aren’t that many of them ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/156 "2021-05-25T16:49:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Doors may have been open, but the glass, debris, and downed barricades hadn’t yet been cleaned up. This is an extraordinary claim (that anyone could have entered the Capitol on Jan 6th without realizing they weren’t supposed to), and I don’t think you have any evidence for it. It’s beyond extraordinary, and it’s simply not credible that anyone would make this claim with a straight face. It’s very hard to take anything this person says seriously at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/157 "2021-05-25T17:59:03Z")
Are you suggesting that the rioters had entered the Capitol through anything other than a broken door or window, or even was able to get to that supposedly open and unbroken entryway without breaking through police barricades? I believe you’re the one who needs to provide evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/158 "2021-05-25T18:42:29Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > \*yes, I’m going with mostly peaceful. There were 5 racial justice protests in my not very large city that were all peaceful. Similarly, there were multiple protests in pretty much every city in the US, hundreds if not thousands of protests, and very few of them became violent. Exactly. The BLM protests were “mostly peaceful” because there were literally thousands of events that occurred worldwide, and the vast majority of those protests were entirely peaceful. To call the Capitol rioters “mostly peaceful” is equivalent to calling the May 28 rioters in Minneapolis “mostly peaceful”, since most of the people present were not the ones setting the police station on fire. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/159 "2021-05-26T14:27:15Z")
[Trump mob descends on Capitol](https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/finished/2021/02/location/washington-riots-desktop-for-web-900w.mp4) Here is cell phone tracking of the mob at Trumps rally going to the Capitol right after the event. He told them to go. We know the leader of this gang of thugs. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/160 "2021-05-26T15:37:35Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Here is cell phone tracking of the mob at Trumps rally going to the Capitol right after the event. He told them to go. We know the leader of this gang of thugs. Knowing literally nothing about the layout of the area and I’m not in any way suggesting Jan 6 was ‘just a normal day’, but I’d be curious to see what an actual ‘normal day’ looks like that when plotted out in a similar manner. IOW, it would be nice to have a control. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/161 "2021-05-26T16:31:40Z")
Sure, but you don’t think that those many hundreds of cell phones being tracked from Trumps rally that all go directly to the Capitol is some sort of coincidence to you? He told them to march to the Capitol, he said he would march with them and lead them at his rally (of course he just watched it on the TV, not doing a dam thing about it). I agree that a commission should be put together to see who else was complicit in this. We know who the leader was, and still is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=9)