# "You would actually think it was a normal tourist visit" \[Jan 6, 2021 Quote\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 14, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093 "2021-05-14T17:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/162 "2021-05-27T01:47:55Z")
The GOP makes more sense if you understand cluster B personality disorders. What they’re doing now is called gaslighting. Trying to lie to people to get them to deny reality so they can avoid responsibility for their crimes and evil behavior. Basically assume the GOP ‘suffer’ from an institutional cluster B personality disorder (narcissism & antisocial personality disorder for example) and engage in a lot of the symptoms (DARVO, gaslighting, playing permanent victim, lying constantly, projection, denying all responsibility, word salads, hypocrisy, name calling, smear campaigns, etc the list goes on) and assume they’re a white nationalist plutocratic party that rejects democracy, and their behavior stops being unexpected or surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/163 "2021-05-27T04:02:01Z")
A couple of years ago, I was a tourist in the US Capitol Building. The day appeared to be a normal day. Rep. Clyde, who maybe has never been a tourist in the Capitol, needs to know a few things. 1. One does not merely “show up” and enter the Capitol. Entrance for the hoi polloi is through the Capitol Vistors’ Center. One must then get a ticket to join a guided tour. Alternatively, one can obtain a ticket from your Senator or Representative. For our trip, we contacted our Congressman Mike McCaul’s office and requested a tour. However, when we arrived, the guides were not busy and we joined a regular tour, not one led by some flunky from McCaul’s office. (I’m not a McCaul fan, but he is my Congressman, despite my best efforts.) 2. Members of the public do not wander the Capitol unescorted. You must stay with a guided tour or be escorted by a congressional staffer. 3. So, people pouring through the doors, even if they are not doing any particular damage while doing so, is not a normal tourist visit. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/164 "2021-05-27T05:06:45Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Sure, but you don’t think that those many hundreds of cell phones being tracked from Trumps rally that all go directly to the Capitol is some sort of coincidence to you? > [@Drum\_God](#): > > - Members of the public do not wander the Capitol unescorted. You must stay with a guided tour or be escorted by a congressional staffer. > - So, people pouring through the doors, even if they are not doing any particular damage while doing so, is not a normal tourist visit. Just to reiterate, I’m not denying or arguing with the animation. I’m simply saying, as someone with no concept of the layout of the area, it would be nice to see a similar animation on a ‘normal’ (or normal tourist) day for comparison. Look at it like this. Let’s say you’re present you with a graph of how many hours of TV people in the US watched, per day, during the past 15 months. That graph and that average, would, to most people, appear very high. But for it to mean anything, you’d have to compare it to, say, the 15 months before the lockdowns started. Like this, sure, I see 100’s of people marching to the capitol. But what is it like on a normal day. 3 people? 50? 100? IMO, drawing a conclusion from a single data point (that graph), may very well be the correct conclusion, but it’s still speculation. I suppose what I/we should consider that animation meant to say ‘look at this’ rather than something to be considered as evidence of anything. As an interesting side note, from what I’m reading, all those dots aren’t just random cellphones. They’re people cell phones with the Parler app installed. And, from what I can tell, it seems the data was pulled by a random person (referred to as a hacker) who noticed all the Parler data had GPS coordinates and collected as much of it as she could. > **[Parler Users Breached Deep Inside U.S. Capitol Building, GPS Data Shows](https://gizmodo.com/parler-users-breached-deep-inside-u-s-capitol-building-1846042905)** > > At least several users of the far-right social network Parler appear to be among the hoard of rioters that managed to penetrate deep inside the U.S. Capitol building and into areas normally restricted to the public, according to GPS metadata. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/165 "2021-05-27T12:43:08Z")
I’m a Programmer GIS data analyst. I understand your desire for more data. But, in this case, you do not need to compare to a regular tourist day in DC. Well sure, you can. But you will not find hundreds and hundreds of people from a central rallying point (Trumps rallying point) proceed directly to the capitol. You say you looked at my link tracking the mob. That was not a boy scout troop, and not something you would see on any normal day. But your welcome to try to compare it to a normal day. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/166 "2021-05-27T13:23:00Z")
Aye; **JoeyP** seems to think that huge mobs moving rapidly to the capitol is a frequent occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/167 "2021-05-27T14:24:21Z")
What would a “normal tourist day” be? The Capitol has been closed to the public since, I believe, March 2020. Similar cell phone tracking prior to the insurrection shouldn’t show anyone inside the Capitol, unless you go back to winter 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/168 "2021-05-27T19:16:12Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > That was not a boy scout troop, and not something you would see on any normal day. Here’s the thing…I have literally zero idea what one WOULD see on a normal day. I’ve never been anywhere near DC. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye; **JoeyP** seems to think that huge mobs moving rapidly to the capitol is a frequent occurrence. Please don’t make things up and pretend like I said them. Go take that BS elsewhere. Anyway, to reiterate, again… > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m not in any way suggesting Jan 6 was ‘just a normal day’, but I’d be curious to see what an actual ‘normal day’ looks like > [@Joey\_P](#): > > it would be nice to see a similar animation on a ‘normal’ (or normal tourist) day for comparison. I have no idea why people are getting all worked up when all I did is mention that I’m curious how that animation would look on a normal day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/169 "2021-05-27T19:23:59Z")
Here is the tour: [Full U.S. Capitol Tour Plus Library of Congress Visit 2020 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pNM8Gmr_X4) Notice the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/170 "2021-05-27T19:30:32Z")
Was that directed at me? Because it wasn’t even remotely what I was asking about. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/171 "2021-05-27T20:07:33Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Here’s the thing…I have literally zero idea what one WOULD see on a normal day. I’ve never been anywhere near DC. Come on man, [did you see this?](https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/finished/2021/02/location/washington-riots-desktop-for-web-900w.mp4) The mob from Trumps rally descended on the capitol. They went there taking two different streets, probably because one became to crowded. But that’s where 100’s and 100’s went. Directly to the Capitol after the rally. No data of normal foot traffic is going to show the same thing. Well, until the next insurrection I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/172 "2021-05-27T20:20:38Z")
🙄 > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I have no idea why people are getting all worked up when all I did is mention that I’m curious how that animation would look on a normal day. A normal day would be what you see everywhere there weren’t thousands of people moving from one concentrated location to another concentrated location. I mean, what do you expect to see? _Why_ do you think it would be relevant to see the same place without the thousands of angry Trumpists? What are you curious about? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/173 "2021-05-27T21:35:28Z")
I think it’s a pretty reasonable ask. It’s hard to know how significant the data is without knowing what’s “normal”. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/174 "2021-05-27T21:55:01Z")
And another 🙄 A parade is not ‘normal’ data to compare to unless you compare to other parades. An Insurrection is not normal unless you compare to other insurrections. Luckily, we have not had to normalize data for insurrections to be able to compare them. A parade, an insurrection or normal every day foot traffic is not going to compare. There is no reason to compare data because there is no data to compare. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/175 "2021-05-27T22:10:21Z")
Yeah, I’m pretty sure he knows that. That’s why he’s asking to see what a normal day looks like. And saying “it just doesn’t compare” is, of course, wrong. I don’t know why people always say that, when what they mean is that two things do compare. Saying “this thing is 100 times as great as that thing” is a comparison. So is “this thing is 1000 times as great as that thing”, or “this thing is 10 times as great as that thing”. So, which of those comparisons is it? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/176 "2021-05-27T22:12:08Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > No data of normal foot traffic is going to show the same thing But what would it look like, that’s literally all I’m asking. I have no idea why everyone is making a big thing out of it. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What are you curious about? I assume you didn’t read that part post, which you quoted, where I said, explicitly: > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m curious how that animation would look on a normal day. > [@enipla](#): > > And another 🙄 A parade is not ‘normal’ data to compare to unless you compare to other parades. > > An Insurrection is not normal unless you compare to other insurrections. Luckily, we have not had to normalize data for insurrections to be able to compare them. > > A parade, an insurrection or normal every day foot traffic is not going to compare. There is no reason to compare data because there is no data to compare. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here since none of that is what I was asking about. We have that animation from January 6. I’m simply curious, with no ulterior motive, what a similar animation would look like on a normal day. Not a parade, not a different insurrection, just a regular day. > [@enipla](#): > > Come on man, [did you see this?](https://int.nyt.com/data/videotape/finished/2021/02/location/washington-riots-desktop-for-web-900w.mp4) Why? Why exactly would you post that? How does that answer anything I asked about? How does doing that add to the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/177 "2021-05-27T22:15:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And saying “it just doesn’t compare” is, of course, wrong. I don’t know why people always say that, when what they mean is that two things do compare. Saying “this thing is 100 times as great as that thing” is a comparison. So is “this thing is 1000 times as great as that thing”, or “this thing is 10 times as great as that thing”. So, which of those comparisons is it? Thank you. It’s like back on 9/11 when they said that all the planes were grounded other than some very small amount. But, when asked how many planes were in the sky on a normal day the answer wasn’t ‘why would you ask that’ or ‘this isn’t a normal day’ or ‘you can’t compare today to a normal day’. No, they said ‘on a normal day there’s typically X planes in the air at any given time’. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/178 "2021-05-27T23:36:13Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at here since none of that is what I was asking about. We have that animation from January 6. I’m simply curious, with no ulterior motive, what a similar animation would look like on a normal day. Not a parade, not a different insurrection, just a regular day. Great, you are welcome to go look for a regular day. And apologies if I miss understood you. I thought you where trying to defend that mess. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/179 "2021-05-27T23:46:47Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > And apologies if I miss understood you. I thought you where trying to defend that mess. Not even a little bit. In fact, I posted at least 6 times saying the opposite. I’m not Tucker Carlson “just asking questions”. Truly just curious what a similar animation would look like on a normal day. I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn’t defending, denying or arguing with what it showed. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > Knowing literally nothing about the layout of the area and I’m not in any way suggesting Jan 6 was ‘just a normal day’, but I’d be curious to see what an actual ‘normal day’ looks like that when plotted out in a similar manner. IOW, it would be nice to have a control. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > Just to reiterate, I’m not denying or arguing with the animation. I’m simply saying, as someone with no concept of the layout of the area, it would be nice to see a similar animation on a ‘normal’ (or normal tourist) day for comparison. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > Here’s the thing…I have literally zero idea what one WOULD see on a normal day. I’ve never been anywhere near DC. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m curious how that animation would look on a normal day. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > But what would it look like, that’s literally all I’m asking. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m simply curious, with no ulterior motive, what a similar animation would look like on a normal day > [@enipla](#): > > Great, you are welcome to go look for a regular day. Given that a similar animation of a normal day in DC likely doesn’t exist (at least not available to the public), I’m not going to go looking for it and I wasn’t asking anyone else to look for one either. It was meant to be a one off comment that I wasn’t expecting to have to defend. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/180 "2021-05-27T23:48:52Z")
So what exactly was wrong with the video I linked to showing what it was like on a normal day of touring Congress? Please describe exactly what it is you are looking to see. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093/181 "2021-05-27T23:59:50Z")
I thought I was pretty explicit in what I’d like to see. The video you provided shows people touring the Capitol building. The video that sparked all this was an animation of cell phone data of people in the area marching towards it. How is that the same? It would be like if I showed you the MPLS riots that resulted in the police station burning down and when asked for video of the same area on a normal day, I gave you a video of a tour group going through the MPLS police station. I said " I’d be curious to see what an actual ‘normal day’ looks like that when plotted out in a similar manner", you responded with a video that was entirely unrelated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-would-actually-think-it-was-a-normal-tourist-visit-jan-6-2021-quote/942093.md?page=10)