# You wouldn't download a city... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812 "2018-02-14T04:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/21 "2018-02-14T15:05:50Z")
You can do all sorts of amazing things if you don’t care about what people think or what people want. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/22 "2018-02-14T15:32:33Z")
[This Doonesbury strip](http://doonesbury.washingtonpost.com/strip/archive/2018/01/28) makes the same point. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/23 "2018-02-14T16:19:27Z")
They’ve done this with a bunch of different cities. First one I read abut was an Austrian village, then Paris, London, New York, etc. I personally think it’s pretty awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/24 "2018-02-14T16:53:51Z")
I think it’s pretty weird. It’s like something from Lem or Chiang - aliens trying to communicate with earthlings. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/25 "2018-02-14T17:00:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > A big chunk of China’s economy is tied up in construction. Despite entire ghost cities being thrown up and using more concrete in three years (2011-2013) than the USA used in the entire 20th century, they just keep building and building because their economy depends on it. If they stop, they’re toast. Oh, slightly earlier than they’ll eventually be anyway, BUT TOAST NONETHELESS! 😛 Exactly. Michael Palin mentioned this in (I believe it was Around the World in 80 Days): he was taking a train in China, and said that there is no labor shortage due to the number of people. The humorous part was someone was mopping the floor in the train…and it didn’t the carpet any good at all! ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/26 "2018-02-14T17:04:33Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > They just expanded it last year… Did you not even read what you quoted? > [@SamuelA](#): > > Sort of how New York City can’t expand their subway even a little bit **without it being one of the most expensive civil infrastructure projects ever assembled.** (Bolding mine) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > In December 2016, after it was announced that Phase 2 might cost $6 billion, transit experts expressed concern that the Second Avenue Subway might be so excessively costly as to preclude construction of Phases 3 and 4, as well as future expansions. One expert stated that the Phase 1 project was the most expensive subway project in the world ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/27 "2018-02-14T17:05:53Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > And what are ‘we’ doing in the West? Well, what I’m glad we’re NOT doing is wasting time and money building miniature versions of famous cities. Let private companies build them to attract tourist money if they so desire. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/28 "2018-02-14T17:35:11Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, what I’m glad we’re NOT doing is wasting time and money building miniature versions of famous cities. Let private companies build them to attract tourist money if they so desire. like the previously mentioned [Paris Casino & Hotel](https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1123483,-115.1727951,3a,89.7y,79.2h,124.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWuMjsDZvXLAJqz6Vq5MaOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Las Vegas. as an aside, I did like that place’s ceiling design in the gaming area. the paint and lighting made it so convincingly like a late evening sky, for a moment I thought it was actually open-air. then I remembered it was 3 p.m. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/29 "2018-02-14T20:14:42Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > They just expanded it last year… They added something like 4 stops at absolutely enormous cost, when what they really needed was to replace 80 year old block signals. I think it was over $5 billion. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/30 "2018-02-15T06:49:10Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You mean to say, “they just expanded it over the last 110 years, spending five times the money per mile as any comparable rapid transit system expansion in other major world cities, all while the rest of the system is left to rot and decay to the point of total breakdown and dysfunction.” > > China’s insane building policy is unsustainable. It’s been unsustainable for two decades. When it blows up - and it will - it will cause an economic crisis the likes of which East Asia hasn’t seen since 1997. > > But at least they know how to put a train line together. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Did you not even read what you quoted? > > (Bolding mine) > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > They added something like 4 stops at absolutely enormous cost, when what they really needed was to replace 80 year old block signals. I think it was over $5 billion. Holy shit people, calm down. I misread his sentence, and I apologize. Everybody take a breath. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/31 "2018-02-15T14:23:31Z")
I don’t doubt that the New York project is over budget and could be done cheaper. On the other hand, I think there’s obvious structural differences between burrowing through the infrastructure of Manhattan and slapping some concrete buildings up in the Chinese countryside to make comparisons between the two pretty irreverent. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/32 "2018-02-16T04:01:51Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t doubt that the New York project is over budget and could be done cheaper. On the other hand, I think there’s obvious structural differences between burrowing through the infrastructure of Manhattan and slapping some concrete buildings up in the Chinese countryside to make comparisons between the two pretty irreverent. Well I think much of the thread is pretty irrelevant; there’s no reason to be holding up buildings in the countryside as the prime example of chinese construction. On the topic of subways, for example, we could compare…subways. Here in Shanghai we’ve gone from no subway in 1993 to 15 lines now and 387 stations, plus a maglev. IIRC another 4 lines are going to be added by 2020. That’s not me bashing the US: China’s situation is different from the US’, as Shanghai and most other cities could never cope with the level of car ownership that there is in America. Also my native Britain is probably even less efficient WRT construction projects than the US. I’m just defending China. It doesn’t make sense to handwave chinese construction on the implicit basis that this fake Paris is their highest achievement. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/33 "2018-02-16T04:13:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Shanghai and most other cities could never cope with the level of car ownership that there is in America. That’s okay; the US cities can’t cope with it either. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/34 "2018-02-16T04:28:07Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That’s not me bashing the US: China’s situation is different from the US’, as Shanghai and most other cities could never cope with the level of car ownership that there is in America. I’m not sure how you can definite a vast parking lot twice a day during ‘rush hour’, where the cars move at about a jogging pace for long periods of time, as “coping” with it. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/35 "2018-02-16T07:46:27Z")
There is only one detail that has any meaning, in what the Chinese are doing. A billion Chinese are eating and have safe and decent housing and education and health care, and not harming or exploiting anybody else to do it… Whatever else they do to keep people busy and entertained is just their version of putting Wheel of Fortune on TV at 6 oclock, and not for us to second-guess. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/36 "2018-02-16T09:58:37Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > There is only one detail that has any meaning, in what the Chinese are doing. A billion Chinese are eating and have safe and decent housing and education and health care, and not harming or exploiting anybody else to do it… Whatever else they do to keep people busy and entertained is just their version of putting Wheel of Fortune on TV at 6 oclock, and not for us to second-guess. Woooow…what a misinformed post. China denies its violent past and suppresses academics and journalists who try to write about it, exploits Africa, has horrific pollution issues, exploits slave labor. > **[China’s Cover-Up](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/chinas-cover)** > > Despite the vast suffering the Chinese Communist Party has caused, it has never admitted guilt, far less memorialized its victims. Nor is it likely to. Too much remembering would risk undermining the party’s legitimacy. And their entertainment for Chinese New Year included black face ‘comedy’ on their most watched television program. > **[Lunar New Year: Chinese TV gala includes 'racist blackface' sketch](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-43081218.amp)** > > The annual Lunar New Year gala featured an Asian woman in blackface and with fake buttocks. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/37 "2018-02-16T12:23:42Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Heck, how long did it take to build Paris the _first time?_ It apparently took 77 years, between 1850 and 1927. It seems it[took 11 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianducheng). And the replica Eiffel Tower was up in a few months, versus 3 years for the original. I don’t know where you get 1850-1927 from. Paris has existed as city for a couple of thousand years, and has been the capital of France since at least the 12th century. The Champs-Élysées was originally laid out 1677, and most of the buildings around it were built in the 18th century. Napoleon built the Arc de Triomphe. Population of Tianducheng : Planned for 10,000 people, current population about 2,000. Population of Paris      : 2.2 million Look at the pictures in this article, showing a small area of replica Paris, with a few high-rise buildings behind. > **[Failed Paris copycat town in China becomes vegetable garden](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2862282/Quelle-horreur-Chinese-town-creates-huge-vegetable-garden-300ft-Eiffel-Tower-replica-plan-build-miniature-Paris-stalls.html)** > > With a 354-foot replica of the Eiffel Tower at the centre, the vegetable gardens in the Chinese town of Tianducheng may be the world's most elaborate allotment. …and with modern technology, you can build a lot faster anywhere today than in past centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/38 "2018-02-16T12:32:40Z")
Well, also, copying something is generally easier than inventing it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/39 "2018-02-16T13:26:28Z")
And creating a city from scratch is a lot easier, if you’re willing to commit to a large lump-sum investment, than growing one gradually. Take those subways, for instance: They’re expensive to build because there’s already a bunch of other stuff built in New York, and so you have to be careful that, when you dig your tunnels, you’re not messing up anything over them. But if you’re building a city from scratch, then you can put the subways (and other underground infrastructure) in first, and then build other things on top of them. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/40 "2018-02-16T15:01:25Z")
It’s like playing SimCity with an unlimited money cheat code. Of course it’s going to be easier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812.md?page=3)