# You wouldn't download a city... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812 "2018-02-14T04:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/41 "2018-02-16T15:15:51Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Woooow…what a misinformed post. China denies its violent past and suppresses academics and journalists who try to write about it, exploits Africa, has horrific pollution issues, exploits slave labor. > > [https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2017-12-12/chinas-cover](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2017-12-12/chinas-cover) > > And their entertainment for Chinese New Year included black face ‘comedy’ on their most watched television program. > > [Lunar New Year: Chinese TV gala includes 'racist blackface' sketch - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-43081218) Please don’t call other posters “misinformed” unless you are prepared to address their misinformed remarks. Instead of just pulling out anecdotes. on unrelated points. China did more in two decades than the US did in two centuries, even with the US exploiting of Africa, horrific pollution issues and slave labor, and blackface entertainment. By the way, do you have anything, even an anecdote, supporting your claim of slave labor in China? ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/42 "2018-02-16T16:02:11Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Pfft. Wake me up when they build a city on rock ‘n’ roll. A city built on rock’n’roll would be structurally unsound. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/43 "2018-02-16T16:29:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And creating a city from scratch is a lot easier, if you’re willing to commit to a large lump-sum investment, than growing one gradually. Take those subways, for instance: They’re expensive to build because there’s already a bunch of other stuff built in New York, and so you have to be careful that, when you dig your tunnels, you’re not messing up anything over them. Explain why London and Paris have built new subways for a fraction of the cost per mile as those in New York. Hint: it has nothing to do with the costs of constructing around ancient infrastructure. The obscene cost of transit construction in New York is entirely an issue of criminal malfeasance, political corruption, and incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/44 "2018-02-16T16:55:34Z")
That’s probably the first time in history that someone implied a lack of corruption in the French government. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/45 "2018-02-16T17:10:41Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > A city built on rock’n’roll would be structurally unsound. You need a good rythm section to build a solid foundation. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/46 "2018-02-16T17:13:33Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Please don’t call other posters “misinformed” unless you are prepared to address their misinformed remarks. Instead of just pulling out anecdotes. on unrelated points. > > China did more in two decades than the US did in two centuries, even with the US exploiting of Africa, horrific pollution issues and slave labor, and blackface entertainment. By the way, do you have anything, even an anecdote, supporting your claim of slave labor in China? Those are things the USA did long ago as compared to what the Chinese do now. We admitted our wrongdoings and tried to be better. Of course, critics of American wrongdoing aren’t imprisoned; our Unis teach ALL our history. One of many articles videos about current Chinese slavery: [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394565/chinas-slaves-josh-gelernter](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394565/chinas-slaves-josh-gelernter) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/47 "2018-02-17T00:38:49Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Those are things the USA did long ago as compared to what the Chinese do now. We admitted our wrongdoings and tried to be better. Of course, critics of American wrongdoing aren’t imprisoned; our Unis teach ALL our history. > > One of many articles videos about current Chinese slavery: > > [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394565/chinas-slaves-josh-gelernter](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394565/chinas-slaves-josh-gelernter) > > " From your link: “Our picture of life in the laogai is murky, but here’s what has been reported”. Interpreted by one of America’s most virulent right-wing journals, which also is still dragging out articles about Obama’s true colors and Hillary’s scandal. What I wrote was not to place blame. Economic development always entails consequences you wish you could avoid, but can’t. You cannot compare “murky” reports from China with the undisputed fact that Americans engaged in two wars in defense of slavery, after every other elected administration in the hemisphere had abolished it. What I wrote was that China achieved similar results, at similar ethical cost, as the USA did, but condensed the development into two decades, not two centuries. Go and explain to the Chinese who want the dignity of food, shelter, education, health carre, tech-assisted labor, that they have to wait 200 years, in order to do it the way the US did. When they have the wherewithal to do it right now. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/48 "2018-02-17T00:51:20Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > From your link: “Our picture of life in the laogai is murky, but here’s what has been reported”. Interpreted by one of America’s most virulent right-wing journals, which also is still dragging out articles about Obama’s true colors and Hillary’s scandal. > > What I wrote was not to place blame. Economic development always entails consequences you wish you could avoid, but can’t. You cannot compare “murky” reports from China with the undisputed fact that Americans engaged in two wars in defense of slavery, after every other elected administration in the hemisphere had abolished it. > > What I wrote was that China achieved similar results, at similar ethical cost, as the USA did, but condensed the development into two decades, not two centuries. > > Go and explain to the Chinese who want the dignity of food, shelter, education, health carre, tech-assisted labor, that they have to wait 200 years, in order to do it the way the US did. When they have the wherewithal to do it right now. Go reread the Foreign Policy article and tell me that the Chinese care anything about dignity. The party that governs them killed in the multimillions of its own citizenry with no consequence. The victims not only have to suffer the loss if their loved ones but of a government that erases them from history. If you haven’t heard of slave labor, organ farms, the disappearances of many ethnic Muslims etc than I don’t know what I can tell you. You only see what you want to see. Also, National Review has always been on the right but they are nothing like you describe. Ad hominem attacks don’t diminish the force of their arguments. There are plenty of YouTube vids out there of the abuse of slave laborers. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/49 "2018-02-17T00:56:53Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > … > > Sort of how New York City can’t expand their subway even a little bit without it being one of the most expensive civil infrastructure projects ever assembled. > … > And what are ‘we’ doing in the West? I’m only going to address this one this shitty example. The 2nd Avenue Subway line doesn’t matter much. Nearly no one really cares about, in the meantime NY is finishing up on one of the great engineering projects in history and on time. [_New York_ City _Water Tunnel_ No. 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Water_Tunnel_No._3) is nearing completion. Construction began in 1970 and was expected to be completed in 2020. This 60 mile long tunnel will keep the water flowing to the greatest city in the US. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/50 "2018-02-17T01:08:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/51 "2018-02-17T01:10:22Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Come on. In a decade, the Chinese completely built systems to provide safe water to several cities that are twice as big as New York. Shitty examples don’t fly. > > If I continue to deflect groundless and anecdotal criticisms of my posts, I’ll be modded again, so that’s the last I’ll say in this thread. I wasn’t responding to you, do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem? I didn’t read your posts. I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812/52 "2018-02-17T01:41:30Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’m only going to address this one this shitty example. The 2nd Avenue Subway line doesn’t matter much. Nearly no one really cares about, in the meantime NY is finishing up on one of the great engineering projects in history and on time. [_New York_ City _Water Tunnel_ No. 3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Water_Tunnel_No._3) is nearing completion. Construction began in 1970 and was expected to be completed in 2020. This 60 mile long tunnel will keep the water flowing to the greatest city in the US. Yeah that’s a perfect example of corruption and graft. No economical project takes 50 years. And the actual task of building a long tunnel is not something you can’t break into smaller tasks that you work on in parallel. The reason the project isn’t economical is that there is a time value to money. Even at the low interest rates a city can borrow money at, there’s also inflation. The money they spent in 1970 is enormously more now because of inflation and interest. What they should have done is hired enough crews and enough firms to build the whole thing as little time as technically feasible. Obviously, a project like this can’t be built in a week, I’m not saying that, and certain elements like the tunnel boring machines, which are ‘use once’, it is cheaper to buy a smaller number of them since you are going to lose the machine once the tunnel is done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-wouldnt-download-a-city/808812.md?page=2)