# You! Yes, you, you psychotic hosebeast! You're FIRED!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631 "2005-12-29T21:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/281 "2006-01-05T01:43:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In the condescension, the lack of acknowledgment of the long history of this person, the suggestion that not all of us may actually _exist_. :dubious: That’s “reasonable”? “Informed”? No, the guy just needs to get over himself. From what I can tell from my reading of his posts, he was only jokingly suggesting that _Joan_ might not exist, and I wasn’t aware she was a Doper. This was in context of cautioning against making a psychological diagnosis over the Internet, especially via second-hand posts of observations of behavior. This was quite warranted - for instance, just having narcissistic tendencies does not automatically mean that one has a legitimate psychological disorder. Merely arguing that one does not deserve to be fired when one is, in fact, a poor employee, does not mean that you are pathologically detached from reality and completely delusional. He and others made the valid point that sometimes, people are just assholes and you can’t tell from some anecdotes whether someone has a real psychological disorder or not. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/282 "2006-01-05T01:47:03Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Joan had her holidays. She doesn’t know what’s coming today. Maybe she had a good holiday and she’s in high spirits. Even though Joan must go, I feel sorry for her because I know how it is to be blindsided. Somehow I doubt that woman even knows what “high spirits” are. Secondly, there is a huge difference between you and Joan. Based on what I know of you from your posts, you strike me as a very intelligent and responsible person. So while your layoffs came unexpectedly, Joan’s was in no way unexpected, unless the woman is completely brain-dead. She has had warning after warning after warning of her behaviour. And a person has to be smokin’ crack to NOT know that insubordination pretty much puts them on the fast track to a pink slip. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/283 "2006-01-05T02:02:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In the condescension, the lack of acknowledgment of the long history of this person, the suggestion that not all of us may actually _exist_. :dubious: That’s “reasonable”? “Informed”? No, the guy just needs to get over himself. He wasn’t saying people might not exist. He was just pointing out the limitations of a psychological evaluation conducted through the internet. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/284 "2006-01-05T02:10:42Z")
Good gracious. Her outburst(s) sounded like badly written and played dialogue from a really bad daytime soap (yes…I know there are no good ones :)). I’ll miss the great stories though. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/285 "2006-01-05T02:41:55Z")
This is sort of a hijack post but fits in with the thread. We fired someone today because he always shows up really late to work and calls in sick ALOT. We were going to fire him yesterday… but he called in sick. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/286 "2006-01-05T02:45:02Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Well, congrats Maureen. You have fired your flaky co-worker. Her problems have now become matters of putting food on the table and so forth instead of messing with your department. You have the consolation of knowing that no matter how flaky and bad she was to your cow-orkers, what you’ve done to her is many orders of magnitude worse than anything she has done. I’m not saying you weren’t justified in doing it, I’m just saying … you win. You hurt her bad. Lucky you. First off, why is it someone else’s responsibility to take care of someone who refused to take care of themselves? Secondly, sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they can see the errors of their ways and learn to behave like a human being. With luck Joan will be one of those who does learn the lesson. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/287 "2006-01-05T03:07:55Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > What I was thinking more of was some sort of well-funded, well-run organization that worked with such people to either get them able to work within the norms of the average workplace, or find some abnormal workplace they’d be well suited to. Doesn’t seem to me to be such a radical thing, but I know how you Dopers like your firings, home foreclosures and such. What? So, in your mind, there is no such thing as a person who is just naturally an idiot/pain in the ass and LIKES it that way? Not all people who are unpleasant jerks and bad workers are some sort of needy mental case who needs special placement or treatment. Some are just simply jerks and as such are more in need of having to face up to the consequnces of their actions and with hope, a change in their attitude, than they are of coddling and special treatment which would do nothing to help them see the errors of their ways. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/288 "2006-01-05T03:15:51Z")
CanvasShoes: See the thread linked to above. You’ll see that Evil Captor thinks it’s perfectly fine to advise job hunters to lie on their resumes. Of course, the possiblity of the job seeker getting fired afterwards for misrepresentation is of no concern to Evil Captor. After all, it’s always the employer’s fault, apparently, for firing someone. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/289 "2006-01-05T04:42:55Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > No, you’re completely off the mark. My argument is simply that the potential scale of the problems induced by firing is so great that it more than makes up for Joan’s misbehavior, in a society with as little in the way of a safety net that we have in the US. **Evil Captor** , why is it that you cannot drop this point? I said it several times in a previous thread, and I’ll say it again: _Employers do not owe their employees a job_. If a homeless crackhead breaks into your house as a squatter and takes my things as his own, it might cause him great problems and harm to have him arrested. After all, you are depriving of food, shelter, and clothes. He needs those things, even though his own actions have created the situation that he’s in. Would you be OK with that? Don’t you feel that, lacking a good social support network, that it’s your responsibility? It probably would be far less harm for me to lose a kidney than deprive one to someone who needs one. Should I be forced to give one up, just because it is the greater good for that person? I shouldn’t have to give up my own things without my consent just because someone else needs them. Just because I hired you does not make me responsible – legally, ethically, or otherwise – for you any more than a grocery store should be obliged to give away food, or that a hotel should be ethically bound to give its rooms out to those who don’t have a place to go. It’s not even morally positive to ignore bad behavior and not fire someone; it hurts other employees and hurts the company. In the long run, the company will shut down because it can’t produce anything. This is how society works. I don’t understand where your sense of entitlement comes from, but it is nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/290 "2006-01-05T04:55:44Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Secondly, there is a huge difference between you and Joan. Based on what I know of you from your posts, you strike me as a very intelligent and responsible person. Aw, shucks! :o If only an employer would see that! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/291 "2006-01-05T06:39:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > … I think Joan was the very model of a psychotic hosebeast … Damn you, Jayjay! I now have this whole scenario running through my mind in a Gilbert and Sullivan earworm. Aiiieeeee! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/292 "2006-01-05T07:25:58Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Aw, shucks! :o > > If only an employer would see that! If I had a job for you and you were in my area, I’d hire you. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/293 "2006-01-05T10:42:09Z")
You know, you’d think I would sympathize with **Evil Captor** ’s position. I mean, I have a mental illness and I was fired once because of that mental illness under rather nasty circumstances. My employer assured me my job was still waiting for me while I was in the hospital with doctors and counselors available only to fire me once I was out of the hospital and on my own. I don’t. Here’s why. Having a mental illness does not excuse being an incompetent bitch, nor does it excuse stealing or attempting to destroy a marriage. I went through a patch this summer when I became a bit bitchy because I was on crutches and in more or less constant pain. My employer called me on my behaviour. Unlike Joan, I acknowledged my behaviour and corrected it. Frankly, having to deal with obnoxious and/or incompetent coworkers has the potential to exacerbate my problems with depression because I get fed up with how unfair it is that they get to get away with this nonsense while I not only have to put up with it but take on extra work because they’re unable or unwilling to do it. Even having a diagnosed mental illness does not mean one doesn’t have to take responsibility for one’s actions, as anyone I know who has a mental illness can tell you. That, by the way, includes a couple of people whose illnesses are bad enough they cannot work full time. Some of them would like to have a job like Joan’s and I cannot see any of them trying to steal a boombox, break up a marriage, or otherwise acting like Joan. Normally I’d suggest we just let **Evil Captor** whitter on and ignore him and in future I probably will, but I did want to do my part to dispel the notion that mentally ill people are not responsible for their actions. By the way, **Johnny LA** , please add me to the list of people who’d be happy to hire you or work with you. I’d take you over a dozen or a hundred Joan’s. If there’s an injustice in the labor market, it’s that good, solid, competent people like you are looking for work while incompetent people like Joan are able to retain jobs by being shuffled around. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/294 "2006-01-05T12:38:52Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > **Evil Captor** , why is it that you cannot drop this point? I said it several times in a previous thread, and I’ll say it again: > > _Employers do not owe their employees a job_. > > If a homeless crackhead breaks into your house as a squatter and takes my things as his own, it might cause him great problems and harm to have him arrested. After all, you are depriving of food, shelter, and clothes. He needs those things, even though his own actions have created the situation that he’s in. Would you be OK with that? Don’t you feel that, lacking a good social support network, that it’s your responsibility? > > It probably would be far less harm for me to lose a kidney than deprive one to someone who needs one. Should I be forced to give one up, just because it is the greater good for that person? > > I shouldn’t have to give up my own things without my consent just because someone else needs them. Just because I hired you does not make me responsible – legally, ethically, or otherwise – for you any more than a grocery store should be obliged to give away food, or that a hotel should be ethically bound to give its rooms out to those who don’t have a place to go. > > It’s not even morally positive to ignore bad behavior and not fire someone; it hurts other employees and hurts the company. In the long run, the company will shut down because it can’t produce anything. > > This is how society works. I don’t understand where your sense of entitlement comes from, but it is nonsensical. Take that much farther and you’ll sound like Lib. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/295 "2006-01-05T12:53:36Z")
**Maureen** , any fallout? I would imagine the workplace is a lot more peppy, but have their been any phone calls or e-mails from Joan? ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/296 "2006-01-05T13:29:08Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > You mean _Like_ like? > > I know… I’m going to hell. Well, no, cause she’s like a girl and I like boys. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/297 "2006-01-05T13:46:39Z")
Just two things about **Evil Captor** : First of all, as others have said, it is immature to bring up the bondage thing. It has nothing to do with this thread, and it’s just pointless snarking. Secondly, **Evil Captor** is wrong, wrong, wrong. Sometimes you have to get rid of dead weight. I just wanted to add that it does amaze me how far people will go. We used to have an employee working at my old job. She was awful…took extra long lunches, breaks, was rude to other employees, but super sweet-nice to the customers. I was assigned to train her in the beginning but a couple of times I asked her “Do you want to try this?” referring to a new job, and she flat-out said no. The department we were in was very close-knit, and in the year that she was there she did everything she could to tear us apart. She once told us that she woke up every morning and decided who to pick on and annoy for that day. A little later, she got pregnant. She stopped taking her birth control and lied about it to her boyfriend. Now as shocking as this is to me I wouldn’t mention it were it not for the fact that she announced it to everyone at work, and seemed proud of it. “It’s the only way to catch a guy.” Her performance worsened. She began having “doctor’s appointments” which coincidentally always happened to be on Friday afternoons, meaning she essentially got a half day. She called in lots of times because she was too sick to come in. She refused to work on snow days because of the baby in her belly. HR was afraid to fire a pregnant woman, even with just cause. Finally they caught her, on camera, stealing. They fired her, gave her a more than ample severance type-thingy, and sent her on her way. Would you believe this girl had the balls to sue? The case barely got to court but the judge viewed the recording of her stealing, and that was the end of that. Most of this I heard long after the fact. During it was just this big mystery. I still think **swampy** ’s story is the best. And **Maureen** , you did fine. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/298 "2006-01-05T14:04:00Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > This is how society works. I don’t understand where your sense of entitlement comes from, but it is nonsensical. Perhaps his perspective will change when he graduates from high school and gets a job of his own. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/299 "2006-01-05T14:07:30Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Interesting. > > **Evil Captor** , although many people have responded with every single reason I had for finally firing my assistant, I figured I’d take a whack at it. The reasons you brought to the fore are the precise reasons I put off firing Joan for so long. I felt that as long as she’d been with this company that she deserved the chance to turn around her unacceptable behaviour and keep her job. Many people have approached her in the past to tell her her attitude is unacceptable. She refused to change. And I don’t mean she didn’t think she should, or she didn’t know what she was doing was wrong. I mean, she told people “I’m too old to change my ways now. People are just going to have to adjust to me.” No. I’m sorry, but everyone should be willing to compromise to make it a workable environment for everyone else. You should be professional and responsible enough to compromise when it’s clear that you are in the wrong. And apologize for being wrong. I am confident that every avenue that was open to me to helping Joan stay here was utilized. We even have a help line (free, anonymous psych line) for employees if they feel unalbe to cope. So that avenue was open to her for advice and help as well. As a manager, I could not force her to use that option, but I certainly made it known to all employees that it’s there if they do feel they need it. You don’t need to justify firing Joan to me. It’s clear from your posts that she was quite a problem for you and your cow-orkers. I just that A) Firing wasn’t so drastic in its effects on people’s lives and/or B) There was some sort of remedy short of firing for people who pose the sort of problem Joan did (i.e., disruptive to other employees, won’t quit such behavior even when given sanctions that clearly would indicate to any reasonable person that she’s headed out the door if she doesn’t change) though I don’t know what that option might be. > [@](#): > > To borrow loosely from Quentin Tarantino, the Biggest “R” I feel right now is relief. Relief that I will not have to see one person on my team pissed and feeling that Joan was accorded special dispensation they wouldn’t have received had they spoken to me or a physician or anyone else that way. And yes, a couple of employees _did_ come to me yesterday and tell me “had I talked to you that way, you would’ve fired me ages ago.” Firing Joan was like excising a malignancy which was slowly killing off the healthy tissue around it. People are interacting more, they’re happier and a feeling of normalcy has settled in. I did what was right for my team. So, yes, you may very well say I won. Well, I’m glad you’re feeling OK about it. Firing is a terrible thing, and it’s sometimes hard on the firer as well as the firee, though that most often occurs in those dubious cases where the firing isn’t as called-for as Joan’s evidently was. (It’s always hard on the firee, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631/300 "2006-01-05T14:17:56Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > some sort of remedy short of firing for people who pose the sort of problem Joan did (i.e., disruptive to other employees, won’t quit such behavior even when given sanctions that clearly would indicate to any reasonable person that she’s headed out the door if she doesn’t change) though I don’t know what that option might be. For crissakes, **WHY?!** Why should a company waste resources trying to help a toxic employee who clearly doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the company? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-yes-you-you-psychotic-hosebeast-youre-fired/337631.md?page=16)