# Young Earth creationism religious belief......disbelief **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338 "2012-12-28T02:26:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HaneyFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/45deac/32.png) [@HaneyFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HaneyFace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/1 "2012-12-28T02:26:10Z")
So in an effort to further understand the idea that the earth is between 5700 yrs. to 1000 yrs. old I would like to present a question that I am unable to solve without help from all of you. Is it possible that the earth could go from 2 people (Adam and Eve) to the 7 billion plus inhabitants in 10000 years? How many children would he average person have to have in order to prove this theory correctly? I find this theory very wrong and do not understand how someone could believe it. If you were to somehow include all of the failed birth attempts or births that lead to the inability to reproduce in common society…ie mentally ill or physically disabled people that generally to not reproduce. Or the astronomical number of people who have died in plagues, war and religion itself. I’m rambling I know but I would really very much appreciate the feedback on the possibility of this theory. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/2 "2012-12-28T02:38:50Z")
Not likely (not an expert in genetics.) But there were other people coeval with the first couple and their two sons. There was brother Seth and their eventual wives. Consider bible “firsts” as first of record or of note. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/3 "2012-12-28T02:46:37Z")
Don’t forget the reboot with the Flood. It really started from Noah and family. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/4 "2012-12-28T03:02:39Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Don’t forget the reboot with the Flood. It really started from Noah and family. 😉 Yes, very good. 😃 No certain date is ever given, but it’s often a few thousands years from creation week. And on the ark, the story goes that only 8 humans survived (I Peter 3:20). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/5 "2012-12-28T03:11:26Z")
Don’t forget that in Bible times, people lived up to 900 years; lotsa time to breed. Of course, that was all **before** the Flood, so I guess it doesn’t matter . . . ---
**Author:** ![HaneyFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/45deac/32.png) [@HaneyFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HaneyFace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/6 "2012-12-28T03:17:16Z")
Im still wondering if we could determine the time of the flood or guess really…say 4000 years into the whole creation on mankind. So that leaves us at 6000 years to get 7 billion people from just 8. We need a math wizard… ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/7 "2012-12-28T03:18:18Z")
The raw numbers are no problem for creationists. By my quick calculations if you start with 3 breeding pairs (man & woman) and each woman delivers 12 children then the 11th generation produces over 2 billion new babies. So, in less than 600 years you can match the current world population. Factoring in war, plague, non-reproducing women, childhood mortality, young adult mortality, etc. will dramatically reduce the theoretical exponential growth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/8 "2012-12-28T03:20:44Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > The raw numbers are no problem for creationists. By my quick calculations if you start with 3 breeding pairs (man & woman) and each woman delivers 12 children . . . :eek: Ouch! ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/9 "2012-12-28T03:31:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Don’t forget that in Bible times, people lived up to 900 years; lotsa time to breed. > > Of course, that was all **before** the Flood, so I guess it doesn’t matter . . . Yeah, I think Noah was the last of those living such long lives, but for some reason, they never had but a few children when they did live that long. Noah lived 950 years, and had his three sons at age 500 or thereabouts. He still got a woodie while up in years, so that’s saying something. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/10 "2012-12-28T03:42:05Z")
Of course, it was a gopherwoodie… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/11 "2012-12-28T03:43:05Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Of course, it was a gopherwoodie… Was it a cubit long? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/12 "2012-12-28T03:47:55Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Was it a cubit long? Riiiiiiight… ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/13 "2012-12-28T03:52:35Z")
This [site](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/population_growth.html) covers the necessary data for a better calculation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/14 "2012-12-28T04:35:32Z")
Methuselah lived 900 years Methuselah lived 900 years But why call dat livin’ When no gal will give in To no man what’s 900 years?! – _Porgy and Bess_ ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/15 "2012-12-28T06:48:07Z")
HaneyFace: > [@](#): > > Im still wondering if we could determine the time of the flood or guess really…say 4000 years into the whole creation on mankind. No need to guess. The numbers given in Genesis Chapter 5, plus the fact that the flood was said to have occurred when Noah was in his 600th year (Genesis 7:11), places the flood at 1656 years after creation. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/16 "2012-12-28T07:50:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: Ouch! Not so remarkable - my great-grandfather was one of nine, and that’s only the late-middle 1800s, and a former work colleague of mine had either nine or eleven, I forget which. I imagine after the first three or four it’s not so hard to pop a few more out. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/17 "2012-12-28T07:53:51Z")
> [@HaneyFace](#): > > Is it possible that the earth could go from 2 people (Adam and Eve) to the 7 billion plus inhabitants in 10000 years? To actually answer this part, yes, it’s possible, but it didn’t actually happen that way. The population of Earth was less than a billion people only 200 years ago. It’s over 7 billion now. If you assume that same rate of growth (7x increase every 200 years) throughout human history (not a good assumption, by the way, but you asked if it was possible), it takes only about eleven 200-year periods (about 2200 years) to go from 2 people to 7 billion. Of course, that assumes modern survival rates, which are very high, historically speaking. But even if you only allow doubling (i.e. about 1/4 as much growth) every 200 years, it would take only 6600 years to reproduce the current population. That coincidence has not been lost on the creationists, most of whom claim an earth age of just about that number. In reality, even doubling every 200 years is very high, historically. Historically, it took us about 12,000 years (well outside the creationist’s window) to do it: at 10,000BC, the population of the planet was less than a million, a reasonable zero-point for our scale. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/18 "2012-12-28T08:46:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: Ouch! If someone can accept 900-year lifespans, the planet getting submerged four miles deep in water, giants walking the earth, and the Red Sea parting then that person won’t choke on the idea of Joseph and his brother being an average-size family. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/19 "2012-12-28T17:34:27Z")
One thing that is sort of obvious if you read Genesis is that people used to live for a lot longer than they did. Before the flood, people lived for hundreds of years and one might suspect that they might end up with hundreds of children in the end. After the flood bottleneck, lifespans dropped somewhat but were still elevated beyond what is typical today, such as 120 years. A standard creationist argument basically says that humanity is in a state of decay and that people in the past were much healthier. _If you assume this to be true_, it’s possible that it could be the case that right after the flood many or most girls got married at 13 and had a child a year until they were 78. Nowadays this is really hard to do but it could be possible with a hypothetical super-physically-fit human or superhuman. The Bible also mentions that some people in it had more children than were named. It doesn’t say how many total children Adam and Eve had in the end, only that they had at least five. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338/20 "2012-12-28T17:38:29Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > If someone can accept 900-year lifespans, the planet getting submerged four miles deep in water, giants walking the earth, and the Red Sea parting then that person won’t choke on the idea of Joseph and his brother being an average-size family. It should probably be noted that Joseph and his brothers were an average-sized family with FOUR mothers (Rachel, Leah, and both of their maids, Bilhah and Zilpah). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-earth-creationism-religious-belief-disbelief/645338.md?page=2)