# Young men and relationships
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [February 11, 2025, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156 "2025-02-11T05:39:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 27
### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/521 "2025-03-05T11:16:21Z")
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Or (as I’ve seen) your some frustrated guy whose pissed off because she’s having sex with a lot of men and he’s not one of them.
Yes. The other common meme among this kind of guy is the one that says 80% of women are all chasing after the top 20% of men and ignore the rest.
I don’t think it’s controversial that monogamy in marriage benefits less powerful/attractive men, because they would end up single if polygamy was common and legal. Most women prefer monogamy too. If we truly had ‘free love’ there’s no reason for most women to choose less attractive men, so they would be out of luck. Therefore it does make some sense for these guys to support slut-shaming.
IMO the mismatch in desire for casual sex or short term vs long term relationships is a major cause of this dating market failure. Women are often inundated with ‘likes’ and messages, with no way to tell which guys are serious about wanting a relationship, and which if any like her in particular Vs spamming every women in the hopes of getting a reply. Perhaps the cost (in courage and risk of embarrassment) of asking a woman out in person is a useful filter for finding men who are at least somewhat serious. I wonder if any dating site has tried limiting how many women the men can like or message, or imposing some other cost to do so?
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> I was friends with every one of my relationships first.
>
> So, I disagree
I was too, and I don’t agree either, but this is what Nice Guy Discourse says.
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Browbeating women into having less sex is a way of raising the price by lowering the supply.
With the ‘price’ being marriage, which has indeed fallen as sex has become more easily available.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/522 "2025-03-05T11:24:02Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> Women are often inundated with ‘likes’ and messages, with no way to tell which guys are serious about wanting a relationship, and which if any like her in particular Vs spamming every women in the hopes of getting a reply. Perhaps the cost (in courage and risk of embarrassment) of asking a woman out in person is a useful filter for finding men who are at least somewhat serious.
I have to agree, “dating apps” have always struck me as a _terrible_ way to look for an actually good relationship, short _or_ long term. They are basically the high tech equivalent of standing on a corner waving a “I WANT A BOYFRIEND” sign. (Or girlfriend, depending on taste)
The [data](https://phys.org/news/2024-02-dating-app-users-relationship-status.html) seems to support my position.
> Mobile dating apps are a popular way to meet people. They promise a fun partner and a happy love life. However, a new study by Radboud University researchers shows that people who use dating apps actually tend to be overall less satisfied with their relationship status than those who don’t.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/523 "2025-03-05T12:33:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Right. Things like a game club or a LARP etc are meant to be social events. Go there, make a friend- it is always good to have another friend- and then maybe that friend will turn out to be a special someone.
If that works, great. Personally, I’ve taken classes in woodworking, guitar, and ballroom dance; and I’ve been curling for about 15 years. All things that I was interested in trying. I learned a lot and had a good time. But no strong friendships or dating came from them.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/524 "2025-03-05T13:43:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> The [data](https://phys.org/news/2024-02-dating-app-users-relationship-status.html) seems to support my position.
>
> > Mobile dating apps are a popular way to meet people. They promise a fun partner and a happy love life. However, a new study by Radboud University researchers shows that people who use dating apps actually tend to be overall less satisfied with their relationship status than those who don’t.
It’s hard to tell from that link whether people are less satisfied because they use the apps, or whether people who are less satisfied with their relationship status are just more likely to use dating apps, which would have been my initial assumption.
I’ve never used one, because i married the man who is still my husband before they existed. But i have lots of friends who did. And while everyone bitches about the apps, i know an awful lot of people who found a partner (and seem happy about that) using dating apps. Like, i went to a friend’s wedding, and asked, “how did you meet?”, and they laughed and said, “how do you find anything these days?”
Fwiw, i think my celibate friend who used to be so frustrated would have done better if there had been dating apps in his youth. If he had the patience to stick it out. I suppose he might have just gotten angry at women in general when few responded to him.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/525 "2025-03-05T14:01:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> And while everyone bitches about the apps, i know an awful lot of people who found a partner (and seem happy about that) using dating apps.
All three of my kids with current relationships, including one long term cohabiting plan on marrying at some point they say … began on dating apps. They are all happy. And to your selection bias arrow of causality point: they are now not on the apps of course.
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### Author:  [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/526 "2025-03-05T14:22:53Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> And while everyone bitches about the apps, i know an awful lot of people who found a partner (and seem happy about that) using dating apps.
So do I - and it’s people of all ages, from my 35 year old niece to my 70 (at the time) year old uncle. I have no idea how many people they met or how long they spent on apps before finding a partner - but I’m sure they were less satisfied during that time.
I don’t think dating apps are like standing on a street corner with a sign - I think they are like going to the places that existed when I was young. Bars and clubs that attracted single people who were looking to meet other single people.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/527 "2025-03-05T14:46:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> It’s hard to tell from that link whether people are less satisfied because they use the apps, or whether people who are less satisfied with their relationship status are just more likely to use dating apps, which would have been my initial assumption.
They compared single people using them with single people not using them. But it seems very likely that people who were more unhappy about being single would be more likely to be using apps.
> [@doreen](#):
>
> I don’t think dating apps are like standing on a street corner with a sign - I think they are like going to the places that existed when I was young. Bars and clubs that attracted single people who were looking to meet other single people.
I have one friend who found his wife on a dating site, but it took him a very long time and a lot of dates compared to those of us who met more organically. (I actually met my husband online, but on an irc server rather than a dating site; apps didn’t exist back then.)
Maybe it’s not that the apps are so terrible exactly; it’s that other ways to meet people like going to bars and clubs, hanging out in pubic with friends, and going to church or other places of worship have been fading away, so if the apps don’t work well for you there isn’t much of an alternative.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/528 "2025-03-05T14:48:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> Maybe she’d seen your profile? 😉
Nevermind. I was lying down trying to get to sleep last night when I finally realized what you meant. The odd thing is that my profile page shows the most popular links I have posted and how many people have clicked on them. The link that I said only goes to page telling you that you need to sign in to see this content keeps getting clicks.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/529 "2025-03-05T14:54:04Z")
> [@doreen](#):
>
> I don’t think dating apps are like standing on a street corner with a sign - I think they are like going to the places that existed when I was young. Bars and clubs that attracted single people who were looking to meet other single people.
I think that’s about right.
I’m not young, but I am single and dating. The apps make up for all the things that don’t happen naturally any more.
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/530 "2025-03-05T15:32:44Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> Maybe it’s not that the apps are so terrible exactly; it’s that other ways to meet people like going to bars and clubs, hanging out in pubic with friends, and going to church or other places of worship have been fading away, so if the apps don’t work well for you there isn’t much of an alternative.
It’s not that apps are “terrible” but they reduce people to a series of filterable metrics. Dating apps are also part of the proliferation of super hi-dev streaming and online entertainment and services that reduces the need for people to “go outside” where they can meet and interact with other people.
Or maybe dating apps are a response to the lack of “other places” for people to go.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/531 "2025-03-05T15:37:04Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> it’s that other ways to meet people like going to bars and clubs, hanging out in pubic with friends
🤣 🤣 Well that would certainly be a way to meet people!
(sorry for laughing at typo, I am a child)
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### Author:  [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)
#### Post date: [March 5, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/532 "2025-03-05T15:42:52Z")
My daughter met her SO on a Discord, but they were friends for years before meeting in person and dating. Neither is a young man, though. Our son met his SO in a very traditional way, as college classmates.
It’s hard to say how online dating would have worked for me. A photo of me wouldn’t have scared many women away, and I probably could have typed a good game. I still might have had the deer in the headlights look when meeting in person, though.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/533 "2025-03-06T10:42:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> The link that I said only goes to page telling you that you need to sign in to see this content keeps getting clicks.
Implying people bother to read before clicking anything. 😂
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> It’s not that apps are “terrible” but they reduce people to a series of filterable metrics.
Yeah. And they give the illusion of infinite choice. It’s not that people have to be prepared to ‘settle’ exactly, but it’s not great to think that however good your partner, there could always be someone better out there.
> [@msmith537](#):
>
> Or maybe dating apps are a response to the lack of “other places” for people to go.
Probably both. I don’t think online socialising fully substitutes for the IRL version, but getting people back out in the real world is a collective action problem.
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> 🤣 🤣 Well that would certainly be a way to meet people!
Lol, that was a very appropriate typo!
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/534 "2025-03-06T11:30:50Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> They compared single people using them with single people not using them. But it seems very likely that people who were more unhappy about being single would be more likely to be using apps.
Right. Single people who are happy to be single, and partnered people who are satisfied with their partner don’t generally use dating apps. They are used primarily by people who want a new partner. Almost by definition the users of dating apps are unsatisfied with their current situation.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/535 "2025-03-06T13:19:35Z")
I’ve posted this site / cite before. It’s an interesting way to expose how filtration on the “catalog features” of your desired mate changes their availability. In essence you fiddle with common dating app filters and immediately see how many & what percentage of people in the USA meet those filters.
> **[How picky are you about your dating requirements?](http://www.iwonderifyouareoutthere.com/)**
>
> A tool that shows the percentage of people who match a specific dating requirement
The site is old enough it does not support https. But it also doesn’t ask you for any personal info. So IMO that’s not an obstacle to using the site, despite many browsers choosing to warn you about that.
It is real eye opening how quickly you can restrict yourself to 1 in 10,000 (= 0.01%) people. if you applied those same filters in a real dating app, that suggests that 9,999 of the subscribers of your desired gender are people you’ll never be shown. Becasue you filtered them out _a priori_. Probably an oops on you.
Caveat:
I doubt their data has any cross correlations included. i.e. If you filter on education level they treat that as one independent dimension. If separately you filter on income level they treat that as one independent dimension. But if you filter on both, the result is excess filtration and a more pessimistic number of hits because IRL education and income have a pretty high correlation. Which their data doesn’t know about.
See also an old thread of mine from 2016:
> [@Source for Socioeconomic Attainment Statistics by Sex](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/source-for-socioeconomic-attainment-statistics-by-sex/773863):
>
> This is inspired by any number of threads over the years on difficulties with dating. One recurring theme being that folks are prone to mistakes like: A) Looking at dating like ordering a car; they want a rigid set of pre-conditions that probably aren’t available as a package deal and aren’t truly essential to compatibility or happiness. and B) They suffer from “champagne taste and beer budget”. AKA “they’re a 6 looking for 7s who’re looking for 8s”. That got me thinking about the interacti…
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### Author:  [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/536 "2025-03-06T13:36:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> I doubt their data has any cross correlations included.
It also doesn’t account for how certain traits are clustered in particular geographic areas. If you restrict your criteria to “Jewish woman” or “gay man,” the “% of population” figure drops to a fraction of 1% - but then, if that’s the only type of partner you’re interested in, you’re probably living in an area where the percentage of gay people or Jews is substantially higher than in the U.S. as a whole.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/537 "2025-03-06T14:36:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> I’ve posted this site / cite before. It’s an interesting way to expose how filtration on the “catalog features” of your desired mate changes their availability. In essence you fiddle with common dating app filters and immediately see how many & what percentage of people in the USA meet those filters.
It’s surprising how little those demographic filters correspond to what I’d actually be looking for if single (is that also true for other people?), but since it’s taken from the census I suppose they used what’s available. I’m sure I’d get a very tiny percentage of the population in reality, but I can only approximate that by choosing things I don’t technically care about.
OKCupid was much better because you could answer questions on a whole range of issues, and rate them for how important they were, and then you’d get a match score with other users, rather than filtering them out for being ‘wrong’ on just one thing.
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#):
>
> It also doesn’t account for how certain traits are clustered in particular geographic areas. If you restrict your criteria to “Jewish woman” or “gay man,” the “% of population” figure drops to a fraction of 1% - but then, if that’s the only type of partner you’re interested in, you’re probably living in an area where the percentage of gay people or Jews is substantially higher than in the U.S. as a whole.
And if you’re not living in such an area, you’ll be out of luck. I grew up in Hicksville and trying to date was hopeless, but when I went to university it was very different because it selects for several important traits.
Maybe a better dating service would be to have people sign up, answer a bunch of questions on themselves and what they are looking for, pick out clusters of similar people and then arrange social events for them? High probability of finding someone you’d be interested in, but no one is straight up eliminated over one criterion, and you get to meet them in real life rather than by swiping. 🤔
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/538 "2025-03-06T14:39:50Z")
ETA @Q.Q.Switcheroo …
Agreed. It’s definitely tinkertoy-level statistics. But still a bit eye opening.
I live in a metro area of ~6M people. Demographically I’m pretty mainstream for the professional class SES. Even with pretty loose parameters on a desired match it quickly reduced the ~3M local-ish females to a few hundred. With no allowance for what percentage of those few are already married or committed. Yikes!
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [March 6, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/539 "2025-03-06T14:52:06Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> I live in a metro area of ~6M people. Demographically I’m pretty mainstream for the professional class SES. Even with pretty loose parameters on a desired match it quickly reduced the ~3M local-ish females to a few hundred. With no allowance for what percentage of those few are already married or committed. Yikes!
Yeah, I don’t think it’s accurate. You can fill in your own demograhics to see how many people are similar to you, and it’s giving unrealistically low numbers. Also, one of the options is ‘in a relationship’ or not.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [March 7, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-men-and-relationships/1014156/540 "2025-03-07T02:02:13Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#):
>
> If you restrict your criteria to “Jewish woman” or “gay man,” the “% of population” figure drops to a fraction of 1%
And yet, some of the early growth of dating apps was driven by people looking for Jewish women or gay men, because that _really was their requirement_, and it can be hard to find those people by just going to a bar. Dating apps are let efficient of you have a hard requirement for an unusual choice like those examples.
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