# Young People More Likely To Favor Socialism Than Capitalism: Pew 12/29/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691 "2012-01-16T14:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/41 "2012-01-18T01:49:20Z")
This is reminding me of my Dad (born 1930) fretting over the fact that his Father-in-law (born 1910) thought that Socialism was a protective and promising thing and that eventually the country would come around to doing more than dabbling her big toe in it. Dad’s catch phrase while fretting was “It’s not that he’s not a hard worker. He is! I have great respect for his work ethic.” He eventually decided that there was something in Grandpa’s personal history or in the times that he has lived through that left him vulnerable to the lies of Socialism, whereas he, Dad, had fortunately grown up during the Depression with a personal history that strengthened him against falling for such things. Even as a small child, I was aware of the irony of that statement, although not yet aware of the word irony. Dad was also scornful of the way political and social outlooks tended to swing back and forth like a pendulum. “Why can’t people just think things through and come to the right conclusion and then leave it alone.” I’m not going to open that can of worms here. But if there’s a bit of pendulum swing in among the poorly worded questions and poorly thought out answers, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. Grandpa would be enjoying it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/42 "2012-01-18T12:16:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The title of this thread also contains a false dichotomy: The poll doesn’t say anything about their views of capitalism. It says that they’re more likely to have a positive view of socialism than a negative one. But it’s possible to have both capitalism and socialism, or to have neither. The poll DOES mention “capitalism”, and yes, it’s almost as popular as well. The OP linked Huffington article in turn [links to an article with more expanded poll results](http://www.people-press.org/2011/12/28/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/?src=prc-headline) where scrolling down the page to the second chart it shows that the alluded demographic of young people are at a dead heat 46/47 % Pos/Neg relative to their attitude to Capitalism, vs. 49/43 re: Socialism. That other article’s conclusion BTW is _“little change in public’s response to capitalism vs. socialism”_, which reinforces the opinion that the Huffington writer was seeing too much of what s/he cared to see into it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/43 "2012-01-18T15:32:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The poll DOES mention “capitalism”, and yes, it’s almost as popular as well. The OP linked Huffington article in turn [links to an article with more expanded poll results](http://www.people-press.org/2011/12/28/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/?src=prc-headline) where scrolling down the page to the second chart it shows that the alluded demographic of young people are at a dead heat 46/47 % Pos/Neg relative to their attitude to Capitalism, vs. 49/43 re: Socialism. That other article’s conclusion BTW is _“little change in public’s response to capitalism vs. socialism”_, which reinforces the opinion that the Huffington writer was seeing too much of what s/he cared to see into it. I would say the Huffington Post writer was MORE alert to the implications of the poll than the Pew people. There was little change in the public overall, but a LARGE change among the youth who were polled. The Huffington Post writer noted it, Pew, for whatever reason, did not. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/44 "2012-01-20T03:01:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > EVERYBODY has seen what laissez-faire capitalism gets you, When? Never. That’s when. It doesn’t help that Liberals seem to toss around terms like “laissez-faire capitalism” and “socialism” as synonyms for “bad economic policy” and “good economy policy” ( or vice-versus if your Conservative) with no clue what the terms actually mean. “Regulation” is not the same thing as socialism. > [@Voyager](#): > > The only way you can say no one under 29 has achieved anything worthwhile is if you think CEOs and other high execs do everything for a company. Plenty of the real work - and the real innovation - is done by the younger crowd. Well…what have you acheived or innovated by 29? Or what do you think you bring to the table that someone with 15 to 20 years of experience doesn’t already have? > [@Voyager](#): > > Yeah, the nerve of those 12-year-olds not bringing in an honest paycheck! So what’s the excuse at 29? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/45 "2012-01-20T03:31:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, marketers, advertisers, journalists and other people who sell stuff care what they think. > > If people actually cared what young people thought, Jay-Z would be President and Miley Cirus would be Secretary of Partying in the USA (Secretary of State is SOO last century). The only reason Obama is president is because of young people. He won with a 9 million net vote margin, and 7 million of those votes came from 18-29 year olds who were barely 20% of the electorate (since they gave him a 30 point margin it worked out to 7 million net votes among that demographic). The other 2 million net votes came from everyone 30 and older. So yeah, politicians care what young people think. As they should. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/46 "2012-01-20T03:37:30Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Well…what have you acheived or innovated by 29? A lot of cutting edge research is done in universities by undergraduates, grad students and post docs who are 29 or younger as an example. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/47 "2012-01-20T03:37:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So what’s the excuse at 29? :dubious: Quite a great many perfectly good ones, nowadays, as you know. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/48 "2012-01-20T05:03:53Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The only reason Obama is president is because of young people. Yeah. That turned out awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/49 "2012-01-20T06:10:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah. That turned out awesome. Compared to ANY Republican, it did! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/50 "2012-01-20T06:16:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > When? Never. That’s when. > It doesn’t help that Liberals seem to toss around terms like “laissez-faire capitalism” and “socialism” as synonyms for “bad economic policy” and “good economy policy” ( or vice-versus if your Conservative) with no clue what the terms actually mean. > > “Regulation” is not the same thing as socialism. Granted, we have never seen pure laissez-faire capitalism in the US and hopefully we never will. But the fact is, it was the REPEAL of Glass-Steagall that opened up banks to the liability caused by CDOs. Banks need to be kept completely separate from investment houses, and investment houses need to be regulated shitless. But now that they pretty much own Congress … both parties … it is not gonna happen. At least, not from Congress. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/51 "2012-01-20T06:21:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > When? Never. That’s when. > It doesn’t help that Liberals seem to toss around terms like “laissez-faire capitalism” and “socialism” as synonyms for “bad economic policy” and “good economy policy” ( or vice-versus if your Conservative) with no clue what the terms actually mean. > > “Regulation” is not the same thing as socialism. > > Well…what have you acheived or innovated by 29? > > Or what do you think you bring to the table that someone with 15 to 20 years of experience doesn’t already have? > > So what’s the excuse at 29? I never understand this attitude. I’ve met plenty of folks in my life who are just plain dismissive of younger generations. Why? There’s lots of fifty year old failures, too. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/52 "2012-01-20T15:03:58Z")
> [@YoDoc](#): > > I never understand this attitude. I’ve met plenty of folks in my life who are just plain dismissive of younger generations. Why? There’s lots of fifty year old failures, too. Hes only about 36 or something. I guess those extra 7 years of life experience gave him a heads up. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/53 "2012-01-20T15:37:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > They’ve been told that requiring people to buy health insurance and taxing the wealthy at 39% of their income are socialism. Seconded. People generally do not know what Socialism is. So when they say they approve of it, there’s little telling what exactly it is that they are expressing approval of. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/54 "2012-01-20T15:54:00Z")
Im almost 29. I have accomplished very little, but that’s because I took the long way to get where I am. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/55 "2012-01-20T16:21:37Z")
> [@YoDoc](#): > > I never understand this attitude. I’ve met plenty of folks in my life who are just plain dismissive of younger generations. Why? There’s lots of fifty year old failures, too. “The young are full of exalted notions, because they have not yet been humbled by life and learnt its limitations.” – Aristotle. Of course, many consider Aristotle a smug unctuous prig-and-pig whose aristocratic philosophy appeals mainly to the respectable middle-aged. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/56 "2012-01-20T18:31:13Z")
> [@YoDoc](#): > > I never understand this attitude. I’ve met plenty of folks in my life who are just plain dismissive of younger generations. Why? There’s lots of fifty year old failures, too. It has nothing to do with being a “failure”. Young people tend to think they know everything already. And not only do they lack practical experience to back up what they think they know, they often don’t even know what they don’t know. You can often learn more from a 50 year old “failure” than you can from a 24 year old “success”. > [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Hes only about 36 or something. I guess those extra 7 years of life experience gave him a heads up. Yes actually. Really, can you think of anything a person has been doing for 7 years that they would be better at it that 99% of the people who are just starting out? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/57 "2012-01-20T19:29:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It has nothing to do with being a “failure”. Young people tend to think they know everything already. And not only do they lack practical experience to back up what they think they know, they often don’t even know what they don’t know. You can often learn more from a 50 year old “failure” than you can from a 24 year old “success”. One of these days you’ll have to meet my first travesty of an assistant system admin from my first “IT Director” position (which, not incidentally, I was promoted to at age 26). The hire was forced on me because he was a drinking buddy of the company owner. Pro tip: if a guy’s in his 50s, and his highest job title was “Journeyman Electrician” before he got a two-year certification in Linux Administration, consider the idea that he’s actually literally incapable of learning anything new. After I fired that chucklefuck (first day as a Linux admin, I find out he has no idea what “ls” or “rm” or “grep” mean.), I hired a 19-yr-old college dropout, who succeeded well enough that he’s now at 24 the IT Director for a fairly large private school. So no, in my experience, age and competence are absolutely unrelated. Those extra years don’t mean a goddamn thing if the person is question is a lazy chucklefuck, or if the younger person is an ambitious go-getter. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/58 "2012-01-20T21:31:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > So no, in my experience, age and competence are absolutely unrelated. Those extra years don’t mean a goddamn thing if the person is question is a lazy chucklefuck, or if the younger person is an ambitious go-getter. Yeah. I think we all understand that there are stupid, lazy, incompetent or simply unqualified people at all ages. That’s why hiring managers don’t just go by DOB. Of course, you do realize you sound like every arrogant 20-something “IT Director” who thinks setting up computer networks and administering email accounts is the height of intellectual and professional acheivement. And why do you put it in quotes? Are you implying that wasn’t your job title? The owner of your company must be doing something right to be running his own company. And there must be some reason he would entrust a position at his company to one of his drinking buddies. And as one of my former managers told me long ago, you take part of the success or failure of every employee who works for you. Yes, sometimes we have to fire people who don’t work out. But you also have to look at yourself to make sure you did all you could to try to make that person successful. My point is maybe this individual wasn’t a good fit for this particular position, but the fact that you dismiss him as a “chucklefuck” is more of a reflection on you, than him. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/59 "2012-01-20T21:45:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because young people have gotten used to being taken care of their entire lives? Don’t you mean “Young people like the idea of reasonable rewards for reasonable labor instead of an upper-middle class and rich segment of the society being inflated by corporate welfare and anti-democratic mechanisms?” (How many rich/upper middle-class people do I know that have hardly ever worked in their lives but reap the best rewards society’s labor has to offer? Well ya a lot lol) “Poor people are just so lazy! Who built my house? Uh carpenters and stuff. Who tends my gardens? Uh gardeners? Who works on the factory floor? Uh lazy poor people. What has my wife done for the last 15 years? Well she drank a lot, sometimes she makes dinner, but only if she’s not on the internet or at the spa all day. What have my thirty year old children accomplished in their lives? Well they’re working on their education, well one mostly does drugs. But I make a million dollars a year so screw you. You’re shit to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691/60 "2012-01-20T21:50:31Z")
What young people are opposed to isn’t capitalism, it’s Americanism, or what is called capitalism in America, which isn’t anything of the sort. It’s a shell game and corporate welfare. Profits by control of government. Profits through anti-competition mechanisms. Profits by deceit and theft. Of course what Europe calls socialism has many of the same problems but at least in that BSpoopia people are educated, don’t starve, have good medical/shelter and aren’t psychotic twats to interact with like in the US. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-people-more-likely-to-favor-socialism-than-capitalism-pew-12-29-11/609691.md?page=4)