# Young voters and gun laws... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395 "2018-02-23T05:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/62 "2018-02-25T04:48:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hear that can be difficult with a revolver 🙂 You can’t see one cylinder. That is, if you can’t count to six… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/63 "2018-02-25T04:52:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Brings to mind this scene from the movie [Deadpool](https://youtu.be/tLmStxxzhkI?t=30). Hahaha I haven’t seen that in a while…love the grenade shot, but you could see the triple lineup coming. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/64 "2018-02-25T05:55:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hear that can be difficult with a revolver 🙂 It depends on how lucky you feel. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/65 "2018-02-25T05:57:37Z")
Nice to see my OP devolve into mutual mental masturbation among gun-nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/66 "2018-02-25T06:37:14Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Nice to see my OP devolve into mutual mental masturbation among gun-nuts. Could be worse. Could have resulted in blowback. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/67 "2018-02-25T06:40:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Could be worse. Could have resulted in blowback. Blowback makes for compact designs, but 9mm and above recoil designs just work better. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/68 "2018-02-25T07:45:47Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Nice to see my OP devolve into mutual mental masturbation among gun-nuts. Jeez one handgun and a shotgun that I only ever use to shoot skeet and I’m a gun nut? Have you read any of my posts in the gun-control threads? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/69 "2018-02-25T08:44:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Jeez one handgun and a shotgun that I only ever use to shoot skeet and I’m a gun nut? > > Have you read any of my posts in the gun-control threads? Hey, you read the OP, right? _You_ (and I; let’s not be excludin’ folks, that ain’t polite) are one of the colonial-era-mindset-dipshits that takes advantage of the 2nd Amendment to walk into a Wal-Mart and buy a gun. It doesn’t matter to the OP what you do with it. You, and I, and any other gun owner in the U.S.A. are mentally diseased fucks; racists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, etc., and there’s nothing you can say or do to convince the (self) Righteous any differently. It’s true. I read it on the Straight Dope, dedicated to fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/70 "2018-02-25T09:03:54Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Hey, you read the OP, right? _You_ (and I; let’s not be excludin’ folks, that ain’t polite) are one of the colonial-era-mindset-dipshits that takes advantage of the 2nd Amendment to walk into a Wal-Mart and buy a gun. > > It doesn’t matter to the OP what you do with it. You, and I, and any other gun owner in the U.S.A. are mentally diseased fucks; racists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, etc., and there’s nothing you can say or do to convince the (self) Righteous any differently. > > It’s true. I read it on the Straight Dope, dedicated to fighting ignorance. Why yes, let’s have a dialogue… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/71 "2018-02-25T09:52:35Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Hey, you read the OP, right? _You_ (and I; let’s not be excludin’ folks, that ain’t polite) are one of the colonial-era-mindset-dipshits that takes advantage of the 2nd Amendment to walk into a Wal-Mart and buy a gun. > > It doesn’t matter to the OP what you do with it. You, and I, and any other gun owner in the U.S.A. are mentally diseased fucks; racists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, etc., and there’s nothing you can say or do to convince the (self) Righteous any differently. > > It’s true. I read it on the Straight Dope, dedicated to fighting ignorance. Have **you** read it? Nothing in his post calls anyone “mentally diseased fucks; racists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, etc.” That is something you added. There is one insult that is present in the OP: calling people dipshits. This is, of course, a generic insult. There is one attack on the Second Amendment as a colonial-era mindset. This is literally true, but it is deliberately said with a highly negative connotation. (A positive connotation might be “traditional” or “written by our Founding Fathers.”) His actual claim is simply that guns are too easily available, and that appeals to tradition are falacious. (Half of that is inarguably true.) That does in any way argue that the people who actually buy guns from Walmart are bad people. He took for granted that everyone knows the reason behind wanting purchasing guns to be more difficult. That reason is not that everyone who wants a gun is a bad person, but to add friction to the process, giving more time to refuse the people who should not be able to purchase a gun. Granted, repealing the Second Amendment is not a practical way to pull this off. People tend to forget that the culture has to change before the laws can. Sure, the law can then further shift the culture, but some culture change still has to come first. And we ain’t there yet. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/72 "2018-02-25T10:02:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Every generation of kids does something stupid, from goldfish eating to phone booth stuffing to streaking to Tide pod eating. > Only a few generations have gotten involved in big numbers. The difference here is that they feel they are getting targeted, and the NRA-backed weevils are telling them tough. > When I was in college the threat of getting sent to Nam after you graduated concentrated the mind wonderfully. Maybe something similar is happening here. Thing is, there were patriotic young men who volunteered to go to 'Nam, not knowing what they were in for. I wonder how many young people would volunteer to be in the middle of a mass shooting? Maybe a few. But how many of their parents would want that for them? That’s where you might find a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/73 "2018-02-25T10:31:25Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Now, I don’t know how many of them, if any, are single-issue voters; or, even, if they vote at all. But I’d wager that a fair number of them aren’t too keen on the idea of more gun laws, especially since the Broward shooting points out just as many, if not more, flaws in law enforcement and medical/social services as it does in any gun laws. > > Point being, I think a lot of folks hoping and praying for young voters to change things more in line with their point(s)-of-view in the wake of Broward might not get the results they’re expecting, should the push come to shove. Why are you using the name of the county and not the city? Is that reflective of some particular news source? Most reports I have seen refer to the recent shooting by the name of the city or even the school. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/74 "2018-02-25T12:17:07Z")
Define when and where this so called “voting” occurs? Are we talking the big national election every 4 years? Midterms in between? Local issues like for school board, parks, and various local tax issues? I can tell you right now the people who may want the youth vote in the general election would NOT want them for some local issues. I’ve been at city and parks board meetings where every person is probably over 60. Thats why our newest local park is NOT designed for anyone over 10 or under 60. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/75 "2018-02-25T18:55:09Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Why yes, let’s have a dialogue… > [@BigT](#): > > Have **you** read it? > > Nothing in his post calls anyone “mentally diseased fucks; racists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, etc.” That is something you added. > > There is one insult that is present in the OP: calling people dipshits. This is, of course, a generic insult. There is one attack on the Second Amendment as a colonial-era mindset. This is literally true, but it is deliberately said with a highly negative connotation. (A positive connotation might be “traditional” or “written by our Founding Fathers.”) > > His actual claim is simply that guns are too easily available, and that appeals to tradition are falacious. (Half of that is inarguably true.) That does in any way argue that the people who actually buy guns from Walmart are bad people. > > He took for granted that everyone knows the reason behind wanting purchasing guns to be more difficult. That reason is not that everyone who wants a gun is a bad person, but to add friction to the process, giving more time to refuse the people who should not be able to purchase a gun. > > Granted, repealing the Second Amendment is not a practical way to pull this off. People tend to forget that the culture has to change before the laws can. Sure, the law can then further shift the culture, but some culture change still has to come first. > > And we ain’t there yet. Have either of you ever read this message board’s gun-control “debates?” Granted, most of them are now in The Pit, because GD doesn’t allow them to expressly express their _real_ feeling for gun owners and 2 Ad. supporters, but the OP nonetheless kicked off this “debate” with less-then-complimentary terminology, letting any-and-all know that this is yet another thinly-veiled rant/gloating session against gun owners. C’mon, both of you have been here waaaay too long to play all coy and ignorant of what I’m saying. Never heard of a poster named **Der Trihs** , and his “take” on us gun owners? Haven’t looked into The Pit and read any of the color commentary there, where people really unload and express what they really think about people like me? The OP doesn’t want a “dialogue;” no one who wants a dialogue uses that kind of language or tone in their OP. This is just more passive/aggressive identity politics dressed up as “debate,” to allow gun control advocates to play the aggrieved “victims” when called on your bullshit. I said my piece. Re-read my first response in this thread for my take on the OP’s position. If you can’t be bothered, I’ll summarize: the new crop of gun owners I’m seeing at my local ranges here in Illinois and Missouri aren’t skinheads, aren’t exclusively white, middle-class suburbanites/rural type “bubbas.” They’re ethnically diverse; white, black, brown, yellow, etc. They’re multi-cultured. Some are working-class, some are college educated, some still in college. They are LGBT or LGBT-friendly. Some are immigrants, Asians and Africans, South and Central Americans, and such, taking advantage of a particular freedom they never had in whatever country they originally called home. They come with their handguns, tattoos, and piercings, enough piercings that I can honestly speculate that they have more metal content stuck in their bodies than is present in their handguns. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! And wrt the 2nd Ad., they “get it.” From the conversations, the _dialogues_ I’ve had with them, they aren’t keen on the NRA; when _politely_ pressed, they reluctantly admit that maybe, just _maybe_, the NRA has a valid point. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Why are you using the name of the county and not the city? Is that reflective of some particular news source? Most reports I have seen refer to the recent shooting by the name of the city or even the school. Brevity; I figured, given the topic at hand and context, using just Broward would be enough. Got a problem with it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/76 "2018-02-25T19:49:04Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Will the resent school shootings result in more young people actually voting? I doubt it, unless this happens right before an election. While there’s mass shooting very frequently (even during elections, since those tend to last more than a week) school shootings aren’t as frequent. Attention and enthusiasm just don’t last long enough. In 2013, Democrat Wendy Davis donned pink shoes to protest an anti-abortion law in Texas. This drew loads of positive media attention. She did so well she won the Democratic primary for governor. But she didn’t win the gubernatorial election. “On November 4, 2014, Davis lost the race to become governor by a landslide twenty percent margin. According to exit polls she only received 47% of the women voters in Texas.” She actually did worse than the Democrats did in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/77 "2018-02-25T20:44:12Z")
I would prefer to not move this to The BBQ Pit so that the discussion could actually address the issue raised, however, a bit of well poisoning in the OP and some overreaction among respondents is jeopardizing that preference. Everyone back off. I am not going to move this to the Pit; I will close it, probably with Warnings, if posters continue to make snide remarks instead of addressing the issues. [Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/78 "2018-02-25T23:30:17Z")
Yep, I’m a gun owner. I enjoy it. I’m not a member of the NRA, because I see no need to pay for an organization to defend a right that is not going to change in our lifetimes, no matter the fantasies of the militant anti-gun types (and also because I don’t buy into their disingenuous attempts to ‘defend’ it). I also have no trouble with regulation. I don’t see anything contradictory about denying that right to those who demonstrably could be or are a danger to society, whether through mental illness, negligence, felony conviction, or otherwise. There’s ample precedent for doing so. (And I live in one of those states with stricter gun control laws, and don’t find them particularly onerous.) Nor is there a contradiction in those two points of view living in the same body. Unfortunately, it appears that some would rather view it in black-and-white, broad-brush terms to serve their own interests. Anyway, back to the OP, the question was asked and answered. I’d like a response from **Claude Remains** on the above. You opened the can of worms; now defend it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/79 "2018-02-26T00:02:38Z")
I saw this thread and it made me think of [this](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/25/opinions/nra-parkland-shooting-opinion-obeidallah/index.html) article on CNN I was reading so thought I’d post it here. > [@](#): > > The NRA’s worst nightmare is here > > (CNN)It feels like the early days of the #MeToo movement, which caused a cultural shift regarding sexual misconduct – but this time, the problem at hand is gun violence, and the movement is called #NeverAgain. And this time, the courageous individuals leading the effort for change are teenagers from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. > > Just a few weeks ago, these young Americans were simply living the typical teenage life. But that changed on February 14, 2018, when a 19-year-old former student carrying a weapon of war entered their school with the intent of slaughtering people – and he did just that. > > Those students who were recently on the front line of gun violence are now on the front line of pushing for laws that will save the lives of other young Americans. And clearly, many of these activists, who witnessed firsthand what an AR-15 can do to the body of a fellow teenager, view the NRA as a big part of the problem. > [@](#): > > We saw that during CNN’s Town Hall last week, when 17-year-old Cameron Kasky said, “This is about people who are for making a difference to save us, and people who are against it and prefer money,” before asking the question that went viral: “So, Sen. Rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA in the future?” > > The audience exploded in response, taking to their feet and filling the venue with thunderous applause – and the look on Rubio’s face was unforgettable. He knew a cultural shift was happening right before his eyes and that the politics of old regarding guns were no longer going to be tolerated. And while Rubio refused to say that he would not accept NRA donations, he did publicly break from the NRA that night on two issues. > > First, Rubio agreed to support raising the minimum age at which people can buy rifles, from 18 to 21; then the Senator announced he was re-evaluating his position on regulations for gun magazines’ clip size. They are really playing up the teens battling for change angle, but I think we are seeing the beginning of what might be a sea change as the pendulum begins to swing back the other way wrt the NRA’s power and the issue of gun control and compromise. I found this part particularly interesting/compelling: > [@](#): > > Now the teenage activists are leading the charge to persuade corporations to end their business relationships with the NRA. > > And it’s working. Major corporations like Delta and United Airlines, MetLife insurance, and car rental companies like Enterprise, Avis Budget Group, and Hertz all announced an end to their partnerships with the NRA. FedEx has still refused to end its relationship with the NRA despite direct pressure from the students. > > Given this cultural shift, the NRA may struggle to find many sponsors, beyond gun manufacturers, for its annual convention, slated for May in Dallas. > [@](#): > > If you were a corporate CEO who had a diverse customer base, would you really want to do business with an organization whose leaders are spewing those types of divisive comments? After all, while there are some five million NRA members, there are more than 300 million of the rest of us. > > Until the NRA’s leadership changes its attitude, corporations should sever all ties to the NRA, as the brave teen activists are advocating. It’s time corporations publicly make a choice between what they value more: the NRA or the lives of our children. Whether you agree or disagree wrt the whole gun debate, I think this is the theme we are going to be seeing and this is the take away people are going to, well, take away from this recent tragedy and it’s aftermath. I think those who refuse to change or adapt and try the same old business as usual approach are going to get steamrolled. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/80 "2018-02-26T01:11:26Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Brevity; I figured, given the topic at hand and context, using just Broward would be enough. > > Got a problem with it? It confused me, because outside of discussions of the behavior of the sheriff’s deputies on the scene, I hadn’t seen the name of the county mentioned. Again, it’s been “Parkland” or the name of the school. I had to look up “Broward” because at first I didn’t know what you were referring to. It was the opposite of clear, to me. That implies that you’re getting information from someone else, who’s prioritizing the county name for some reason; or that you yourself have chosen to use the county’s name as opposed to either of the names being used in the media. Then again, maybe I’m in the bubble, and “Broward shooting” is normal; but using a county name instead of the name of a municipality seems unusual enough that I doubt that’s what it is. If you’re getting your information from very different sources, then that may go some way to explaining different points of view and bodies of information on this case. On the other hand, if you just hate referring to an incorporated municipality by its name, that implies some rather eccentric politics on your part. On yet another hand, if _you_ have been hearing “Parkland” but _deliberately_ chose a confusing name, that makes it sound like you’re talking about a different case. That might be meant to avoid the emotional trigger of “Parkland;” it might just be that you’re contrary; but it almost makes it sound as if we had _two_ shootings on Valentine’s Day. That’s why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395/81 "2018-02-26T01:19:38Z")
I think sheriffs and their deputies work in counties, so when discussing them it would be logical to mention the county rather than a city or school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/young-voters-and-gun-laws/809395.md?page=5)