Young women and possessiveness over "Nerd/Geek"

[Jragon]

@Lamia

And she does this because…women who look like supermodels must resort to trickery in order to attract attention from men? Because gamer guys are so desirable that a beautiful woman who doesn’t even really like video games must be desperate for their approval?

I want to preface this to say that I know what I’m about to share is the norm, but:

My ex-girlfriend openly (to me) said she only participated in Magic the Gathering for attention. She had an ex (who is now a friend of mine) who really liked Magic the Gathering, which she really hated. Sometimes he would be in the middle of a Magic game with a friend in his dorm, and she’d walk in and ask him to do something for her. If he said “after this game” she would go down the hall and find a mutual friend to cheat on him with, and then tell her ex about it in detail to teach him not to play Magic when she needed something. She didn’t do this when he put off a request for anything else, just Magic. And no, ignoring her for Magic wasn’t a regular problem – she openly admits this only happened once or twice, she just wanted to punish him for Magic.

That said, she always went to tournaments and game days with him at the shop. Why? Because she liked how easy it was to get attention from people there. She was the only girl there, and she’s reasonably cute, and she liked the fawning, and she liked flirting with all of them to make her boyfriend jealous. She still hated the game, but she would play sometimes just so people would fawn over her playing Magic. I’m not inferring any of this, she outright told me.

Now, I wouldn’t call my ex a “fake geek girl” (albeit she didn’t even self-identify as a geek in public or otherwise), she was pretty obsessed with anime, and likes World of Warcraft, but she was almost certainly a “fake Magic player.” She was pretty, but insecure, and not quite pretty/confident enough to get anyone she wanted. She found geeky guys to be easy targets to seduce compared to non-geeky guys. She openly said that she hates most geeky hobbies that aren’t anime, but proudly admitted that she would feign interest in them to get attention.

Now remember I don’t this is an epidemic and my ex was kind of fucked up, but it has happened with at least one person. And yes, the problem is in large part from geeks putting women up on a pedestal, but I would be surprised if there weren’t a couple of insecure cute-but-not-supermodel girls with a pathological need for attention who realized that geeks are easy targets.

That doesn’t mean that we should start a witch hunt for fake geek girls. That doesn’t mean I don’t take girls who say they share certain interests at face value. I think there are fake geek guys too. I really don’t care, I want people to do what they like and be happy without worrying about whether somebody else accepts their self label or not, but I don’t think it’s inconceivable that people who may be insecure or screwed up in certain ways might feign interest in things just to have a place of belonging or safety or fulfill certain pathological needs. It’s almost certainly very, very rare though, because it takes a certain perfect storm of mental issues to get into scenarios like that.

[monstro]

@CarnalK

Why qualities does she think DO make her a geek?

I don’t know nor do I really care. I thought her opinion was neither well-written or thoughtful. But never oncce did she make a HUGE deal over her claim to geekdom. It was a casual, throw-away descriptor for herself.

Kind of like how people might preface their negative opinions about gym/sports culture with, “I’m into health as much as the next person, but I can’t stand blahblahblah…” I’m all for critiquing what this person says. But it wouldn’t occur to me to argue about whether they really care about good health.

If someone is bookish, lacks social skills, doesn’t dress fashionably, and has a history of being an outsider, how should they describe themselves? “Nerd/geek” are apparently landmines. “Dork” is insulting. “Quirky” is vague. I say people should feel free to use “nerd/geek”, and simply ignore the people who want to froth over it pedantically. No one owns these terms, no matter how “offended” some people claim to be (seriously, one of those chicks said she was offended. No wonder she was bullied in school.)

[CarnalK]

Umm, i was just asking.

[ZipperJJ]

@monstro

I don’t know nor do I really care. I thought her opinion was neither well-written or thoughtful. But never oncce did she make a HUGE deal over her claim to geekdom. It was a casual, throw-away descriptor for herself.

No, it was the whole point of the article. “I am totally a geek, but these pieces of geek culture are awful.”

She explained why she thought those things were awful, but left out half of her argument.

If you are un-interested in a thing that is not supposed to be interesting to everyone then ok, that is no premise for an article. But her premise was “I’m the audience here, and it’s no good.” She does not back up why she is the audience.

[monstro]

@CarnalK

Umm, i was just asking.

Um, I was just responding.

ZipperJJ, I didn’t read it like that at all, but I’ll concede the point because it’s not that big of a deal to me. I didn’t find the article half as interesting as some of those comments, so I’ve probably overlooked some stuff.

[Justin_Bailey]

@jsgoddess

Why in the world do you think “geek” is/was an insult without meaning? (And then you go on to say that “geek” means something specific, which is weird.)

“Geek” as an insult is just something school-age kids used to throw around to denigrate the other. It applied to everyone who wasn’t one of theirs and, basically, it had no real meaning beyond “the other.”

“Geek Culture” means something. Namely, science fiction, fantasy, comic books, video games, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, “Geek” as a group signifier means people who into science fiction, fantasy, comic books, video games, etc, etc, etc.

It can also be used as a modifier to show that someone who has a hobby that is not part of “Geek Culture” is particularly knowledgeable or obsessive about it.

See Also: Google Search
Specifically definition 1 and 1a

[Justin_Bailey]

@Jragon

That said, she always went to tournaments and game days with him at the shop. Why? Because she liked how easy it was to get attention from people there. She was the only girl there, and she’s reasonably cute, and she liked the fawning, and she liked flirting with all of them to make her boyfriend jealous. She still hated the game, but she would play sometimes just so people would fawn over her playing Magic. I’m not inferring any of this, she outright told me.

Now, I wouldn’t call my ex a “fake geek girl” (albeit she didn’t even self-identify as a geek in public or otherwise), she was pretty obsessed with anime, and likes World of Warcraft, but she was almost certainly a “fake Magic player.” She was pretty, but insecure, and not quite pretty/confident enough to get anyone she wanted. She found geeky guys to be easy targets to seduce compared to non-geeky guys. She openly said that she hates most geeky hobbies that aren’t anime, but proudly admitted that she would feign interest in them to get attention.

Now remember I don’t this is an epidemic and my ex was kind of fucked up, but it has happened with at least one person. And yes, the problem is in large part from geeks putting women up on a pedestal, but I would be surprised if there weren’t a couple of insecure cute-but-not-supermodel girls with a pathological need for attention who realized that geeks are easy targets.

That doesn’t mean that we should start a witch hunt for fake geek girls. That doesn’t mean I don’t take girls who say they share certain interests at face value. I think there are fake geek guys too. I really don’t care, I want people to do what they like and be happy without worrying about whether somebody else accepts their self label or not, but I don’t think it’s inconceivable that people who may be insecure or screwed up in certain ways might feign interest in things just to have a place of belonging or safety or fulfill certain pathological needs. It’s almost certainly very, very rare though, because it takes a certain perfect storm of mental issues to get into scenarios like that.

This is what I’ve been trying to say, but much better.

[wonky]

@Justin_Bailey

“Geek” as an insult is just something school-age kids used to throw around to denigrate the other. It applied to everyone who wasn’t one of theirs and, basically, it had no real meaning beyond “the other.”

“Geek Culture” means something. Namely, science fiction, fantasy, comic books, video games, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, “Geek” as a group signifier means people who into science fiction, fantasy, comic books, video games, etc, etc, etc.

It can also be used as a modifier to show that someone who has a hobby that is not part of “Geek Culture” is particularly knowledgeable or obsessive about it.

See Also: Google Search
Specifically definition 1 and 1a

I love how you say it had no meaning, then point to a definition that specifically says that a geek had exactly the meaning I understood it to have: “1. an unfashionable or socially inept person.”

[Justin_Bailey]

@jsgoddess

I love how you say it had no meaning, then point to a definition that specifically says that a geek had exactly the meaning I understood it to have: “1. an unfashionable or socially inept person.”

And what meaning does that have when some high school kid is using it to make fun of someone else? What specific qualities is he or she making fun of?

[Jophiel]

@Jragon

That said, she always went to tournaments and game days with him at the shop. Why? Because she liked how easy it was to get attention from people there. She was the only girl there, and she’s reasonably cute, and she liked the fawning, and she liked flirting with all of them to make her boyfriend jealous. She still hated the game, but she would play sometimes just so people would fawn over her playing Magic. I’m not inferring any of this, she outright told me.

I knew a girl like this in college for Dungeons & Dragons. I think she first started coming around because she was dating a guy who played. But then it was pretty much for the ego boost. Not only the guys who would dote on her but she was given every free ride in-game for being a girl. “Oh, no you made your saving throw” “Oh, you can have the magic ring” “Oh, your plan totally killed the ogre king with one hit”, yadda yadda. She never showed any actual interest in the game but just sort of coasted and enjoyed the verbal stroking. A mutual female friend told me that the “fake” girl said to her several times (in response to “real” girl talking about the game) that she wasn’t really that interested but she liked being totally wonderful for a few hours twice a week.

That’s not really to trash talk her or anything. She wasn’t predatory and didn’t try to make guys buy her dinner or play one guy against the other or anything like that. I remember her as being a fairly soft-spoken sweet girl. But her interests in the game weren’t really in the game. I’d largely forgotten about her until your post.

[wonky]

@Justin_Bailey

And what meaning does that have when some high school kid is using it to make fun of someone else? What specific qualities is he or she making fun of?

The specific qualities are being unfashionable and socially inept.

What meaning does calling someone stupid have? It means you think they are dumb or have a low IQ or are blinded by ignorance and/or you think being called stupid will hurt them. So, you call someone a geek because you think they are unfashionable or socially inept and/or you think being called a geek will hurt them.

There’s nothing particularly vague or undefined about “geek.” And even if there were, you don’t get to then say “Oh, this insult was undefined, therefore I will define it to suit myself and attack those who don’t live up to my definition.” That’s goofy.

[Justin_Bailey]

@jsgoddess

There’s nothing particularly vague or undefined about “geek.” And even if there were, you don’t get to then say “Oh, this insult was undefined, therefore I will define it to suit myself and attack those who don’t live up to my definition.” That’s goofy.

Attack who? Are you really arguing that “geek culture” isn’t a thing?

[Inner_Stickler]

For the record, I would not consider geek to be a meaningless insult and when I was in middle and high school, calling someone who was say, on the football team a geek would have been a non sequitur at best unless you had video of him poring over football-related spreadsheets or something.

[wonky]

@Justin_Bailey

Attack who? Are you really arguing that “geek culture” isn’t a thing?

No, I’m saying exactly what I said upthread. I’ll even quote myself:

Why should people who identify as geeks, and often started doing so long before there was any geek cred, have to answer to a bunch of upstarts who declare there’s only one way?

There’s no central planning committee for geekery. No one owns the term. It isn’t a religion. No one was the founder. So when someone starts to demand others bow down to a certain culture, it’s pretty presumptuous.

[Sassy]

From the Speaker for the Geeks: You are overruled.

[Ibanez]

@Spice_Weasel

I question whether they would have come down as hard on that article if the author hadn’t been such a snotty bitch…

Not much substance to her character. Not only is she a poser geek, she’s a hypocritical feminist as well. I suspect she’s doing both because it’s cool..

[wonky]

@Sassy

From the Speaker for the Geeks: You are overruled.

Perfect.

[FlyingRat]

@Sassy

From the Speaker for the Geeks: You are overruled.

All hail the mighty Scalzi. (Love him SO HARD.)

[QUOTE=John Scalzi]

Many people believe geekdom is defined by a love of a thing, but I think — and my experience of geekdom bears on this thinking — that the true sign of a geek is a delight in sharing a thing. It’s the major difference between a geek and a hipster, you know: When a hipster sees someone else grooving on the thing they love, their reaction is to say “Oh, crap, now the wrong people like the thing I love.” When a geek sees someone else grooving on the thing they love, their reaction is to say “ZOMG YOU LOVE WHAT I LOVE COME WITH ME AND LET US LOVE IT TOGETHER.”

Any jerk can love a thing. It’s the sharing that makes geekdom awesome.
[/QUOTE]

Wil Wheaton agrees, and explains it in a video message to a newborn baby:

[QUOTE=Wil Wheaton]

So, there’s going to be a thing in your life that you love. I don’t know what that’s going to be … and it doesn’t matter what it is. The way you love that, and the way that you find other people who love it the way you do is what makes you a nerd. The defining characteristic of [being a nerd] is that we love things. Some of us love Firefly and some of us love Game of Thrones, or Star Trek, or Star Wars, or anime, or games, or fantasy, or science fiction. Some of us love completely different things. But we all love those things SO much that we travel for thousands of miles … we come from all over the world, so that we can be around people who love the things the way that we love them.

[/QUOTE]

[Jragon]

@Jragon

I want to preface this to say that I know what I’m about to share is the norm, but:

Er… NOT the norm. NOT is a key word there that is not there.

[BigT]

@monstro

I agree that “geek” means something, and people have to be mindful of this before they throw the term around. But even if she’s not a geek, I fail to see why this should engender the red-hot outrage that I sensed coming from some of the commenters. That anger is what I don’t understand.

I don’t disagree with you that the level of anger is ridiculous. But I think I understand it. Socialization skills are not a priority to many geeks (and is what I would consider a defining characteristic of nerds). So they’ve never learned to control their anger. Their primary mode of communication is often online, where people are usually more free with their anger due to the anonymity and lack of consequences.

I’ve experienced this exact thing, finding myself much more quick to anger in real life now that I spend a lot more time online. And it even had a snowball effect, making me get more angry online. It’s the reason I took a relative break for a while, as I did not like myself as an angry person.

Geeks just get really angry about a lot of things that don’t really matter. That Xbox One-vs-PS4 series of South Park episodes had to be that outrageous for a reason–anything less would have been the same as real life and not funny. It’s like how passionate some sports fans get, but instead of it only lasting for a game, it’s pretty much all the time.