# Your arms are not broken. Open the door. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662 "2004-12-13T21:29:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/41 "2004-12-15T13:04:10Z")
The handicap-opener doors I’m used to have the problem that if you push them there’s a lot of resistance, a horrible whining, and then the motor kicks in about half way round ANYWAY, so there’s not really any way roudn it, despite pushing open doors normally being quicker and simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/42 "2004-12-15T13:17:19Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > There’s one building I frequent where there is half-circle shaped lobby with four doors, each door is a good 10 feet apart. The door closest to the parking lot is the handicap door. > > It kind of makes me pissed that they put the handicap door right there and I have to walk ten more feet to get to the regular door. :eek: Am I being whoosed? I’m usually good at figuring that out. Please tell me you aren’t serious. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/43 "2004-12-15T13:18:25Z")
> [@Jaade](#): > > :eek: > > Am I being whoosed? I’m usually good at figuring that out. > > Please tell me you aren’t serious. :smack: Whooshed…whooshed I mean… ~grumbles~ It’s only 8:20 in the morning, don’t expect me to be fully coherent! ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/44 "2004-12-15T13:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > The handicap-opener doors I’m used to have the problem that if you push them there’s a lot of resistance, a horrible whining, and then the motor kicks in about half way round ANYWAY, so there’s not really any way roudn it, despite pushing open doors normally being quicker and simpler. This is the most salient point (if the door was in the UK, at least) - these type of automatic door openers for disabled users are NOT designed to be fitted on a main door that is also the main entrance (but has to be in the same location as the main entrance). The door should be open solely by the button as manual opening works against the mechanism and can cause premature failure. These openers are not meant to be used in the same manner as a general PIR arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/45 "2004-12-15T13:46:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Since when were automatic doors just for handicapped people? Did I miss another memo? No, but considerate people know that automatic door openers will wear out over time. Much sooner than a standard door hinge. A library is already on a tight budget. Couple door opener repairs with the added electriciy to operate them. People are just getting lazier. You can actually leave faster if you don’t have to wait for the auto door to open. An auto door stays open longer thus letting out building heat and or conditioned air. Another energy waster. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/46 "2004-12-15T13:53:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If you have spinal bifida or multiple sclerosis, are you just shit out of luck? You’re kidding right? How would they have gotten to there in the first place if they’re that feeble? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/47 "2004-12-15T14:40:02Z")
Perhaps the solution is to make the college attractive enough to the handicapped that the library door is opening (legitimately in **iggy popov** ’s view) practically _all_ of the time. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/48 "2004-12-15T15:01:16Z")
I generally use the handicapped door at my school’s library for a variety of reasons. When I round the corner to the building, it’s right there, and usually I step on the rubber mat (yes, ours uses a rubber mat to detect a wheelchair instead of having the disabled person push a button) before I know it, and voila… the door’s open. Without placing signs such as “electronic door for handicapped usage only,” the library should accept that the door motor may burn out sooner than if only handicapped folks were using it. College kids are pretty lazy in this regard, I’ve noticed. I also usually take the elevator from the 1st to 3rd or further floors, I guess I should start taking the stairs to save the library some money and make sure I don’t burn out the elevator motor in case a disabled person needs to use it, eh. Oh, and sometimes I walk up the wheelchair ramp instead of using the steps outside of raised buildings. I’m so evil. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/49 "2004-12-15T15:17:45Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > So your logic is, if we can’t accomodate everyone, we should accomodate no one? You are one dumb fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/50 "2004-12-15T15:20:39Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > No, but considerate people know that automatic door openers will wear out over time. Much sooner than a standard door hinge. > A library is already on a tight budget. Couple door opener repairs with the added electriciy to operate them. > People are just getting lazier. > You can actually leave faster if you don’t have to wait for the auto door to open. > An auto door stays open longer thus letting out building heat and or conditioned air. Another energy waster. You’re straining gnats, and wiggly ones at that. I know of no evidence that auto-doors wear out faster than ordinary ones. Much depends on how well each is made. The electricity to operate them is negligible. And people stand in doorways all the time in ordinary doors, letting air in and out. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/51 "2004-12-15T15:21:59Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > This is the most salient point (if the door was in the UK, at least) - these type of automatic door openers for disabled users are NOT designed to be fitted on a main door that is also the main entrance (but has to be in the same location as the main entrance). The door should be open solely by the button as manual opening works against the mechanism and can cause premature failure. What I’m thinking is couldn’t there be a sign on the door, either “Please push the door open if you can, using the handicap opener too much wears it out” or “Please do not push the door, it damages the motor,” and then we’d _know_ and wouldn’t have to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/52 "2004-12-15T15:22:24Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > How would they have gotten to there in the first place if they’re that feeble? Stephen Hawking can get to the door; he just can’t reach up and push the button. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/53 "2004-12-15T15:32:42Z")
Just to throw another monkey wrench in the mix … At the two hospitals where my children were born, they have these types of doors in the corridors, with a large square push-button on the wall next to the doors. There is a sign over each set of doors asking people to use the buttons to open the doors, and NOT to manually push the doors open. I asked a nurse about that, and she said pushing the doors open manually can mess up the hydraulics in the doors over time. Dunno how accurate that is, but I do know of at least two institutions who discourage people from manually opening those doors. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/54 "2004-12-15T15:39:06Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I know of no evidence that auto-doors wear out faster than ordinary ones. **Lib** , it is not the door that wears out (certainly not the hinges which would be identical to any other door on the scheme, I’m sure). But, conversely, it is the act of the actual physical opening of a door fitted with an automatic opener without using the supplied easy-opening button, that causes the jarring and future failure. The point is that, really (and contrary to the OP’s wishes), a door fitted with such a device should ONLY be opened with the installed device to avoid such potential damage to the mechanism. FYI, the button in question (to answer an earlier query you had) is approx. 100 x 100mm (5 inch square), clearly marked as such, set at a specific height (730mm IIRC) and very lightly sprung to allow it to be pushed by a wrist, an elbow or any other body part (if the user has carpel tunnel syndrome / arthritis etc…) with minimum fuss and maximum ease. I certainly agree that the door being open for several seconds longer than necessary is hardly a big issue, nor is the electricity use. There can in some instances be an annoyance for reception staff in terms of causing cold draughts (and noise as per the OP), but as you say, no real difference than the main entrance being held open by an able-bodied customer. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/55 "2004-12-15T15:45:26Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You are one dumb fuck. Ooh, ouch, the savage wit of your repartee is exceeded only by your clever evasion of the question. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/56 "2004-12-15T15:49:22Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Such special needs regulations, or course, are always [woefully inadequate](http://www.fape.org/obstacles.htm), fraught with [unforseen consequences](http://www.spedlaw.com/html/opnews/V12oct98n2.htm), and implemented purely for [political expediency](http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~24781~2584859,00.html). The final link, to the story on the LAUSD, is a little confusing. The article never really explains what the different proposals were, or exactly what the content of the consent decree was. Also, it seems to me (if i understand the article correctly) that the consent decree was something quite different from a regulation requiring that a building have a automatic door for the disabled. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/57 "2004-12-15T15:50:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Stephen Hawking can get to the door; he just can’t reach up and push the button. I’m thinking that these buttons are typically mounted at the same height as the average wheelchair armrest. All he would have to do is bump the armrest into the button. Plus, he has people. > [@](#): > > You’re straining gnats, and wiggly ones at that. The electricity to operate them is negligible. And people stand in doorways all the time in ordinary doors, letting air in and out. Possibly, but none of this would even be an issue if normally-abled people would use the normally-abled accesses and egresses. I think it would just be a common courtesy. A societal conciousness. Do you go and shit up the disabled stall in the restrooms all the time? > [@](#): > > I know of no evidence that auto-doors wear out faster than ordinary ones. Much depends on how well each is made. Come on. Have you ever installed or adjusted one of these? They’re not cheap to maintain either. You can’t possibly think that a fully automated opener that has power assist, a circuit board and solenoids, a hydrolic plunger and the assorted wiring, controls and push buttons would last just as long as a strictly mechanical model. These systems also have to be tied into the fire alarm system to allow egress during a power outage or fire. That means backup power and a fire system link. You haven’t given a good reason why you _should_ use it. _Laziness_ and _becase I can_ have already been taken. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/58 "2004-12-15T15:52:09Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > What I’m thinking is couldn’t there be a sign on the door, either “Please push the door open if you can, using the handicap opener too much wears it out” or “Please do not push the door, it damages the motor,” and then we’d _know_ and wouldn’t have to guess. There certainly should be signage on the door to inform any user of the fact it is an automatic opening door. I should also point out that this type of separate disabled entrance has now gone totally out of favour with the introduction of the new [DDA\* legislation](http://www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-accessibility/uk-website-legal-requirements.shtml) regarding access (in the UK) that became law in October past. It is considered demeaning and insulting to make a disabled user have to use a separate entrance than other able-bodied users - discriminatory practice in design, and to be avoided. - Disability Discrimination Act ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/59 "2004-12-15T16:23:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Stephen Hawking can get to the door; he just can’t reach up and push the button. Funnily enough the doors I was thinking of earlier were those at the maths building in cambridge, and installed, we joke, pretty much specifically for him. > [@Aro](#): > > There certainly should be signage on the door to inform any user of the fact it is an automatic opening door. I can’t recall exactly: I remember that the button is clearly marked, but I can’t remember if it says “disabled access” or just “automatic opening”. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662/60 "2004-12-17T22:56:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I know of no evidence that auto-doors wear out faster than ordinary ones. Of course you don’t. But that’s not really saying much because it wasn’t until two days before you wrote this that you even knew handicap doors existed. I can’t imagine you’ve had much time to study the nuances of its mechanical structure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-arms-are-not-broken-open-the-door/279662.md?page=4)