# Your boyfriend gave you a Black Eye...In see no reason to leave him either! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585 "2004-12-07T18:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/61 "2004-12-11T02:44:54Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > he’s at no risk of professional repremand even if he was to post this woman’s name, address and SIN number (although that would be a really, really bad idea, and a really good way to piss off his coworkers) Actually, it might be a violation of FERPA. > [@](#): > > A person who’s graduated from law school but never passed the bar isn’t a lawyer, they’re just someone who knows a lot about the law. Actually, one learns rather little law in law school. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/62 "2004-12-11T02:49:51Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Notice that the first thing that I did was to acknowledge that she wasn’t your client.** > > I would think the clinical literature would have given you a little perspective along the way if you were really who you say you are. “This woman is in good care?” “She is making the right decisions?” **And she is still in the house with him???** Even the terminology you use is screwed up. > > There are several practicing psychologists at SDMB. I’m surprised you haven’t noticed. You are a psychologist as well as a teacher if you have your doctorate in psychology. Did that slip your mind? > > You say that this kind of situation is new to you and yet spousal abuse is quite common. You have your doctorate and have been a professor for – eight years now? It just doesn’t add up. It’s like a dentist coming to SDMB for perspective on dry socket. > > I have a low tolerance for people who attempt to deceive. Fortunately, your posts seem basically harmless. > > If this post had been the only one in which you had done this, I wouldn’t have said anything. But you do have a history of stories that don’t make much sense. You know something **Zoe** , I’m on my way to bed and I thought I’d check the boards to see what was going on with this thread. I’m not one to defend myself overtly, but you raise a point I have heard before. I apologize that my ways are unorthodox, however, I have been ridiculed enough. Either accept me or not. But please do not try and circumvent my point by changing the agenda of the post. If you’d like to email me, my address is open. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/63 "2004-12-12T09:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kelly** : Uh, I have a friend who has a doctorate in psychology who is in no way a psychologist. He does things with rats and electrodes and stuff like that. There are many paths to the Ph.D. **Psychology** is the science of the mind. (_psyche_ – mind, _-logy_ – science) A **psychologist** is one who studies the science of the mind. One who holds a doctorate in psychology is certainly a psychologist. That does not mean she or he is a practicing therapist or counselor. Your friend with the rats and electrodes may also be a psychologist working in research. (You don’t, however, have to have a doctorate to be a psychologist and you don’t have to hang out a shingle.) I noticed that **Phlosphr** did not bother to correct the misconception. I doubt that he knows the difference. And I agree that he is no psychologist. **Phlosphr** , you are the one who chose to post this in the pit. Your personal integrity has been challenged before and not just by me. And there have been times when you have admitted to fabrication. I have absolutely no reason to contact you by email. Those who have offered specific, tangible help to the woman you have described, however, might like a word with you. They take you seriously; bless them for their good hearts. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/64 "2004-12-12T10:11:04Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > \*\*One who holds a doctorate in psychology is certainly a psychologist. That does not mean she or he is a practicing therapist or counselor. The “professional ethics” that you so blithely accuse **Phlosphr** of violating only apply, as you well know, to practicing clinical psychologists. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/65 "2004-12-13T00:06:54Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Give her the number to a local abused women’s shelter. What are the law in your state? Will the police press charges even if the woman doesn’t? > > Be her friend. I was never abused, so I don’t have the psychological insight to her emotions right now. Why bother? She will not listen to you anyway. She wallows in self-martyrdom and will resent you for taking that away from her. Do not affirm her self-delusions of being loved by this creep. Do not be fooled by the notion that her controls her. Her need to not take responsibility for her life is fulfilled in him. ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/66 "2004-12-13T02:04:34Z")
I will state right here at the outset that I do not have a frame of reference in my life, nor, I believe, in my mental makeup, to completely understand how battered women are coerced into staying with the man who beats the shit out of them. But … I have to admit I’m boggled that a woman would stay in a violent relationship over STUFF. ‘I can’t leave him though he beats me black and blue because I would lose my stuff!’ ‘I have to wait until I can collect my things to leave.’ Come again?! Even if it were the last relic of the last person who’d ever meant anything to you in life, it’s essentially an object - versus your physical/mental well being and quite possibly your LIFE?! Women seriously stay in violent relationships because they don’t want to lose ‘things’? I just do **not** understand that. Please tell me it’s a mental excuse for some deeper self-image / psychological issues… ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/67 "2004-12-13T03:38:57Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Why bother? > > She will not listen to you anyway. > > She wallows in self-martyrdom and will resent you for taking that away from her. > > Do not affirm her self-delusions of being loved by this creep. > > Do not be fooled by the notion that her controls her. > > Her need to not take responsibility for her life is fulfilled in him. Wow. I had no idea that something as complex as the emotionally stability of an abused woman could be boiled down to such easily understood points. It IS all her fault. Who knew? /sarcasm - Rebekkah ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/68 "2004-12-13T04:06:36Z")
> [@Maendosa](#): > > I will state right here at the outset that I do not have a frame of reference in my life, nor, I believe, in my mental makeup, to completely understand how battered women are coerced into staying with the man who beats the shit out of them. > > But … I have to admit I’m boggled that a woman would stay in a violent relationship over STUFF. ‘I can’t leave him though he beats me black and blue because I would lose my stuff!’ ‘I have to wait until I can collect my things to leave.’ Come again?! Even if it were the last relic of the last person who’d ever meant anything to you in life, it’s essentially an object - versus your physical/mental well being and quite possibly your LIFE?! > > Women seriously stay in violent relationships because they don’t want to lose ‘things’? I just do **not** understand that. Please tell me it’s a mental excuse for some deeper self-image / psychological issues… It is an excuse. She’s afraid to leave, and coming up with reasons not to. She may not even be aware she’s doing that. **Zoe** , considering that **Phlosphr** has been here since 2001, I doubt he’d suddenly try a stunt like that now. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/69 "2004-12-13T06:01:26Z")
> [@](#): > > **Guinastasia** : Zoe, considering that **Phlosphr** has been here since 2001, I doubt he’d suddenly try a stunt like that now. The accusation that he was breaking professional ethics was a woosh. He has shown no evidence of academic education in psychology in anything that I have read and has demonstrated a tendency to post about situations that don’t hold up under scrutiny. That has been a pattern I’ve noticed for two years now. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/70 "2004-12-13T13:29:28Z")
> [@Rebekkah](#): > > Wow. I had no idea that something as complex as the emotionally stability of an abused woman could be boiled down to such easily understood points. > > It IS all her fault. Who knew? > > /sarcasm > > - Rebekkah I get the feeling **ouryl** has been through this with a friend or family member. Having gone through it years ago with my sister, and having just had a friend marry her abuser this past week (after all of her friends AND her sister begged her not to marry him), it can be easy to become jaded. I know I certainly am right now in terms of my friend. I’m dreading her return from her honeymoon because it means I have to ‘play nice’ and be happy for her, when my heart’s breaking for her. Getting friends or family to leave their abusers can be a futile gesture, and yes, it can be frustrating as hell and make one a little bit jaded. I’m not saying these women don’t deserve help, but when you’ve offered help and it’s been ignored or refuted one too many times, you tend to get a little pissed off. E. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/71 "2004-12-13T14:56:45Z")
> [@Elza B](#): > > I get the feeling **ouryl** has been through this with a friend or family member. Having gone through it years ago with my sister, and having just had a friend marry her abuser this past week (after all of her friends AND her sister begged her not to marry him), it can be easy to become jaded. I know I certainly am right now in terms of my friend. I’m dreading her return from her honeymoon because it means I have to ‘play nice’ and be happy for her, when my heart’s breaking for her. > > Getting friends or family to leave their abusers can be a futile gesture, and yes, it can be frustrating as hell and make one a little bit jaded. I’m not saying these women don’t deserve help, but when you’ve offered help and it’s been ignored or refuted one too many times, you tend to get a little pissed off. > > E. Very frustrating indeed as she has apparently not left him, and still resides at the house. I am proctoring most of the day today, so I will not see her much, but I will keep everyone posted if I hear anything else. For those who have contributed thank you very much. I appreciate the insight. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/72 "2004-12-13T15:23:20Z")
It must be terrifying to have to tear apart your life in such a way. Everyone is afraid of change. Once she gets past the actual “change” part, she’ll wonder why she didn’t do it sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/73 "2004-12-13T15:56:28Z")
Yep. The hard part is, mustering up enough belief in yourself to actually get away. My abuser had me believing I couldn’t survive on my own, I forgot I had worth as a person in and of myself. They (abusers) beat you down so far (mentally/emotionally) you forget that you ever felt differently. Change when you are so downtrodden is frightening, because you don’t think you can survive. It finally got to the point with me, that I either had to stay, and die, or go out into the unknown and “risk it all”. Plus, it’s hard work, and when you are so tired because you have to struggle as hard as you can to keep living, you’re not sure you’ll be able to put out the energy needed to get away. This is where a support group comes in, because they can get the abused person in touch with their humanity, and help them see that they are stronger than they think they are. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/74 "2004-12-13T20:45:26Z")
> [@Elza B](#): > > Getting friends or family to leave their abusers can be a futile gesture, and yes, it can be frustrating as hell and make one a little bit jaded. I’m not saying these women don’t deserve help, but when you’ve offered help and it’s been ignored or refuted one too many times, you tend to get a little pissed off. > > E. …further contributing to her isolation, which makes it even less likely that she will leave him. Every friend she looses confirms in her mind that what he says is true, and she is not worth loving. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/75 "2004-12-13T21:00:51Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > …further contributing to her isolation, which makes it even less likely that she will leave him. Every friend she looses confirms in her mind that what he says is true, and she is not worth loving. Where did I say I would let it affect my relationship with the person who needs to get out? I may become jaded and frustrated, but that doesn’t mean I’ll stop trying or give up on them. I was trying to give an explanation as to where **ouryl** was coming from. I’ve dealt with this issue several times in my life for loved ones - it’s hard as hell to watch your sister with a black eye saying “But he loves me and said he’d never do it again” at twelve years old. And yeah, there were times I wanted to grab her and shake her and scream at her - but I never did. We finally got her out of there. With my current friend, I give her all of the support she thinks she wants. I never hesitate to tell her that if she needs help, I’ll be there. But I will not allow my own heart to be pounded in the process and I will not be her punching bag. She knows that I will be there for her if she ever wants to divorce the asshole she just married, she knows that I will discuss anything else with her, but I will not discuss her marriage if she just wants to bitch and moan and not DO anything about it. Since I can’t give her the positive response she seeks, it’s off-limits to both of us. I won’t pretend everything’s okay, and if I don’t do that, it just makes her ‘feel bad’ - her words. So it’s not a subject we discuss. Sometimes it IS futile. Sometimes you DO get pissed off at these people you love who won’t take that leap of faith. It’s human nature and I won’t apologize for that. My sister’s alive today because we DIDN’T give up on her, regardless of all of our anger and frustration in her and her situation. She knows that and I know that and I hope someday my friend and **Philsophr** ’s co-worker will know that no one gave up on them, even if they did get frustrated and angry. E. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/76 "2004-12-13T21:57:53Z")
> [@Elza B](#): > > Where did I say I would let it affect my relationship with the person who needs to get out? I may become jaded and frustrated, but that doesn’t mean I’ll stop trying or give up on them. I was trying to give an explanation as to where **ouryl** was coming from… > > Sometimes it IS futile. Sometimes you DO get pissed off at these people you love who won’t take that leap of faith. It’s human nature and I won’t apologize for that. My post wasn’t a condemnation of you at all, **Elza** , but of the fucked-up-edness of the situation and the abusee’s thought process. I’ve been on both sides, as abusee and abusee’s friend, and I completely understand your frustration and anger. You _should_ be angry, wouldn’t be human if you weren’t. I sometimes think the support system needs to get its own support system in these cases (which is, I guess, what **Philosphr** is using us Dopers for). ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/77 "2004-12-13T22:01:19Z")
Crap. I forgot to apologize, **Elza** , if what I said was hurful or offensive to you. I have nothing but respect for any friend who cares enough to stick around through all that shit. I know that I am eternally grateful to mine. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/78 "2004-12-14T03:13:48Z")
> [@Maendosa](#): > > Women seriously stay in violent relationships because they don’t want to lose ‘things’? I just do **not** understand that. Please tell me it’s a mental excuse for some deeper self-image / psychological issues… Well, for ME some of that freaking _stuff_ you dismiss so cavalierly has been in MY family for many hundreds of years. Some of that _stuff_ was items from my childhood, including _stuff_ that had belonged to my dead grandfather, and dead sister. Some of that _stuff_ was irreplacable to ME. Go ahead and burn everything that means something to you, it is just your _stuff_ and not worth anything. ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585/79 "2004-12-14T03:20:40Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > Crap. I forgot to apologize, **Elza** , if what I said was hurful or offensive to you. I have nothing but respect for any friend who cares enough to stick around through all that shit. I know that I am eternally grateful to mine. Argh - I’m sorry if I misread your post. I apologize - it’s been a stressful week and my friend is expected back in a day or so - so my hackles are up and waiting. I am very, _very_ sorry if I took that out on you. I’m damn proud of my sister for what she did, what she got herself out of, and what she got her son out of - I am proud of ANY woman who manages to get out of the never-ending cycle of abuse. I _want_ to be proud of my friend. I really do. I just wish I could be proud of her a lot sooner than I think will happen, you know? E. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-boyfriend-gave-you-a-black-eye-in-see-no-reason-to-leave-him-either/278585.md?page=3)