Your confessions to a priest, minister etc are not necessarily confidential -

[Northern_Piper]

@Slithy_Tove

David Starkey.

Thanks!

[The_Mask_behind_the_Mask]

Sounds like I’d better stop telling sensational stories during confession . . .

[OldGuy]

@Bricker

I don’t agree.

First, the guilty actor himself has an absolute right not to incriminate himself, and that’s a good thing, on balance: he should have that right.

Priest-penitent allows the religious counselor to have a voice in urging the penitent to publicly confess without stifling the avenue of confession. If penitents knew their confessions could be repeated – they’d stop making them.

The trouble I have with this view and with almost all religious exceptions to the law, is that they usually require some definition of what is religion. If I sincerely believe my next-door neighbor is my religious confessor and he agrees, but we have only each other in our religion, I doubt that this would fly with the court. Some laws require that the religion be established (and I’m pretty sure that’s not the right word), but that essentially requires that the government recognize some religions and not others. The law I’m most familiar with is on the taxation of books. For example,

(9) The taxes imposed by this chapter do not apply to the use, sale, or distribution of religious publications, bibles, hymn books, prayer books, vestments, altar paraphernalia, sacramental chalices, and like church service and ceremonial raiments and equipment.

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 212.06 (West)

So who decides that Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy is not a religious publication for me?

As I recall Georgia had a similar law struck down because it was applied (by interpretation) to Christian, Jewish and Muslim only

[zoid]

That is an interesting point. What defines a “valid” religion?
It seem that the law often errors on the side of those claiming the benefit. For example the right not to vaccinate is, in my opinion, being abused. I’m pretty sure a good number of TV evangelists are in it for the $s as well.

[YogSothoth]

@Blaster_Master

I am not Catholic, but it seems to me that the idea of separation of church and state should go both ways

To me its not a separation of church and state issue, its making everyone play by the same rules. Separation of church and state should only materialize in the state not taking a stance on the validity of a church, and the church not taking a stance on the politics of the state. Its like claiming that Burger King managers should have the right to keep confessions secret because we shouldn’t have government interfere in private businesses.

@Bricker

First, the guilty actor himself has an absolute right not to incriminate himself, and that’s a good thing, on balance: he should have that right.

He can do that by not saying anything to anyone

@Bricker

As a society, we have balanced other competing harms and found that it allowing other privileges to stand is not an unqualified good either, but on balance, we believe them to enhance society.

What a mistaken belief that is :rolleyes:

@Bricker

Priest-penitent allows the religious counselor to have a voice in urging the penitent to publicly confess without stifling the avenue of confession. If penitents knew their confessions could be repeated – they’d stop making them.

I’d like a study of statistically how much crime we’d prevent by having this policy, versus how much we’d have if we get rid of it because keeping it as law. Because to me, it sounds like a lot of mushy beliefs about religion that has no basis in fact and has never been studied to any thorough degree

[Bricker]

@gigi

I don’t think this is true. You need to be truly spiritually repentant, and the priest can urge you to turn yourself in, but I don’t think they withhold a sacrament based on a secular requirement. Bricker?

@Northern_Piper

My understanding is that the priest can withhold absolution if he feels the confession is not sincerely made.

Since atonement is part of the function of confession and absolution, a priest may conclude that a person who has confessed to a serious crime to the priest, but will not go to the secular authorities and make a similar confession , is not truly penitent and therefore is not entitled to absolution.

Northern Piper has the right answer. Technically, a priest may not withhold absolution on condition of the penitent turning himself into police. But he may permissibly decide that the penitent’s refusal to turn himself in evinces a lack of sincerity about his repentance and withhold absolution on that basis.

[zoid]

@YogSosoth

To me its not a separation of church and state issue, its making everyone play by the same rules. Separation of church and state should only materialize in the state not taking a stance on the validity of a church, and the church not taking a stance on the politics of the state. Its like claiming that Burger King managers should have the right to keep confessions secret because we shouldn’t have government interfere in private businesses.

He can do that by not saying anything to anyone

What a mistaken belief that is :rolleyes:

I’d like a study of statistically how much crime we’d prevent by having this policy, versus how much we’d have if we get rid of it because keeping it as law. Because to me, it sounds like a lot of mushy beliefs about religion that has no basis in fact and has never been studied to any thorough degree

Bricker is correct on every point you quoted.

[DrumBum]

Some time ago, I stumbled on another thread with a post by Bricker that ( I think ) dealt with something similar to this topic. In the post he mentioned a case where a non-Catholic person confessed a crime to priest, thinking he was covered but the judge ruled otherwise.

It was a fascinating post but my search skills are similar to those of a 3rd grader and I’ve not be able to find it. Perhaps I could prevail on Bricker to find it. Hopefully is his billable rate for SDMB members is not too high. :eek:

[Jophiel]

@zoid

A priest, therefore, cannot break the seal to save his own life…

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0059.html

I’m going to pitch a movie where a priest is told via confession that the guy is going to hunt and murder him but then the priest can’t seek help because it was a confession. Brilliant!

(I realize that there’d be a dozen work-arounds here but this is Hollywood)

[Baker]

Jophiel, I don’t remember the name of the movie, but it had to be an old one as it was in B&W.

In it a man confesses a murder to a priest, then, somehow, the evidence points to the priest as the killer. He can’t break the seal of the confessional, so he has to find other ways to prove he is innocent. I’m assuming there was a happy ending, as I never actually saw the movie, just a blurb for it.

[OldGuy]

@Jophiel

I’m going to pitch a movie where a priest is told via confession that the guy is going to hunt and murder him but then the priest can’t seek help because it was a confession. Brilliant!

I don’t know about a priest, but it’s my understanding a lawyer can (and I think must report) someone saying they’re going to commit a crime, at least a major one like murder. It’s only “I have committed a crime” that’s protected.

[Typo_Negative]

**Baker **

Jophiel, I don’t remember the name of the movie, but it had to be an old one as it was in B&W.

In it a man confesses a murder to a priest, then, somehow, the evidence points to the priest as the killer. He can’t break the seal of the confessional, so he has to find other ways to prove he is innocent. I’m assuming there was a happy ending, as I never actually saw the movie, just a blurb for it.

I believe it wasA Prayer for the Dying

ETA
Sorry, that was the Hit Man movie

[robert_columbia]

@Jophiel

I’m going to pitch a movie where a priest is told via confession that the guy is going to hunt and murder him but then the priest can’t seek help because it was a confession. Brilliant!

(I realize that there’d be a dozen work-arounds here but this is Hollywood)

One situation I have wondered about (from the perspective of a priest’s obligations with respect to Catholicism, not local law) is if someone confessed to having poisoned the lunch that has been prepared for after Mass. Or maybe they confess to having poisoned the bread or wine to be served during mass. Of course, the priest can’t report the person to police for attempted poisoning - but could they quietly dispose of the food and prepare something else at the last minute, without telling anyone why? Any priests or Catholic doctrine experts here? In other words, is the seal of the confessional absolute with respect to using any information gained within it for any purpose, or does the seal only apply to “outing” a specific person as a wrongdoer?

[Northern_Piper]

@Baker

Jophiel, I don’t remember the name of the movie, but it had to be an old one as it was in B&W.

In it a man confesses a murder to a priest, then, somehow, the evidence points to the priest as the killer. He can’t break the seal of the confessional, so he has to find other ways to prove he is innocent. I’m assuming there was a happy ending, as I never actually saw the movie, just a blurb for it.

Hi Baker, are you thinking of the Hitchcock film, “I Confess”?

I Confess (film)

Great flick, and set in the beautiful City of Québec - made me nostalgic for my time there when I saw the movie a year or two later.