# "your cow-orkers day off is more important than your day off" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025 "2006-07-11T14:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/61 "2006-07-12T16:57:50Z")
> [@DeadlyAccurate](#): > > It also means you can quit for any reason, with or without giving notice, barring any contractual obligations you might have agreed to. If someone quits without the usual two week notice I consider them as abandoning the job and they don’t get references. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Mr\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/62 "2006-07-12T17:24:41Z")
We have holiday forms that have to be filled out and signed by the Contract Manager. Once it is signed it is set in stone and he cannot make you change it as per company policy. It really clears up any disputes. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/63 "2006-07-12T17:48:36Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > If someone quits without the usual two week notice I consider them as abandoning the job and they don’t get references. Well sure, I didn’t say it was _good_ to quit without notice; just that it’s perfectly legal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/64 "2006-07-12T17:54:15Z")
> [@Cheez\_Whia](#): > > I worked at a home center as an assistant manager, and had asked for some vacation time. I was told that I could not have the time off, as it was too busy. (It was always “too busy”- inventory, spring, Christmas, etc.) > > A couple of weeks later, the boss calls me into his office and tells me that my co-worker (also an assistant manager) had been given the _exact two weeks off_ I had been turned down for, because “he needs some time off right now.” :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: > > Assholes. I quit that job. Assuming you are in the U.S. and this was within the past decade, I suspect that is management speak for “has a mental health issue that we have to give him ADA leave for.” Or possibly “has a chemical dependancy issule that we have to give him ADA leave for.” Course, you were there, its possible he had plane tickets to Bermuda. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/65 "2006-07-12T21:41:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So can non-parents get up to 4 months paid leave for other reasons? Ofcourse not. I don’t see the problem here - we accept that parental leave is necessary and the government pays for 6 weeks of it. It is standard practise in New Zealand and I think it is in Australia and Britain, although probably not for all jobs. I haven’t ever used it, have no children, but think it is a very good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/66 "2006-07-12T23:50:49Z")
Canada has one full year of paid maternity/paternity leave. And your job is guaranteed to be held for your return. No wonder parents here get such a sense of entitlement. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/67 "2006-07-13T00:13:59Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Canada has one full year of paid maternity/paternity leave. And your job is guaranteed to be held for your return. No wonder parents here get such a sense of entitlement. Well, I live in Alberta too, and I think “entitled” is a strong way to put it, with too many negative connotations. We all have EI (employment insurance) premiums taken off all our paychecks. So why shouldn’t you feel entitled to using the service when it’s available? There’s no shame in using a benefit that you’ve been contributing to for the entire time you’ve been working in Canada. [Human Resources Development Canada website on maternity/parental leave](http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=en/ei/types/special.shtml&hs). To elaborate, in Canada you can get up to one year of maternity/parental leave (50 weeks, plus a 2-week waiting period at the beginning). But the paid maternity leave “salary” isn’t paid by your employer, but through EI. And you don’t get your full salary, you get: > [@](#): > > How much will you receive? > > The basic benefit rate is **55% of your average insured earnings up to a maximum amount of $413 per week**. Your EI payment is a taxable income, meaning federal and provincial or territorial taxes, if it applies, will be deducted from your payment. To find out how we calculate the amount you will receive… > > You could receive a higher benefit rate if you are in a low-income family — net income up to a maximum of $25,921 per year — with children and you or your spouse receive the Canada Child Tax Benefit (CCTB) Government of Canada site, you are entitled to the Family Supplement. Your employer does have to hold your position for one year - my employer usually just hires a contract employee for one year (at the same wage, or lower, wage than the regular employee). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/68 "2006-07-13T00:42:45Z")
I should have said “some parents.” My bad. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/69 "2006-07-13T03:33:59Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > Ofcourse not. I don’t see the problem here - we accept that parental leave is necessary and the government pays for 6 weeks of it. It is standard practise in New Zealand and I think it is in Australia and Britain, although probably not for all jobs. I haven’t ever used it, have no children, but think it is a very good thing. Why are parents any more special than non-parents? I think it’s a form of unfair favoritism. Maybe I need to take some weeks off after my parents die for bereavement, arrangements and tie up all the loose strings? (In fact, I did have to take two weeks of my \*vacation \*time after my Father died) ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/70 "2006-07-13T03:50:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why are parents any more special than non-parents? I think it’s a form of unfair favoritism. Maybe I need to take some weeks off after my parents die for bereavement, arrangements and tie up all the loose strings? (In fact, I did have to take two weeks of my \*vacation \*time after my Father died) :dubious: Seriously? I hope I’m being whooshed here, but please don’t ever advance this theory on behalf of all childless professionals. Yeah, I fully support giving people some extra time to care for their newborn to help propagate the species. You don’t want to have kids, no problem. Don’t have kids. Maternity leave (or paternity leave) does not constitute a vacation. It enables people to have both a career and a family. Your comparison of maternity leave to a lack of bereavement leave is also rediculous. Now, I fully sopport the notion that there should be bereavement leave, as well as (but not replacing) maternity leave. Why would you deserve time off to handle your family’s affairs but someone who had already taken maternity leave not deserve the same amount of time to deal with the same issues? ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/71 "2006-07-13T12:48:59Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Assuming you are in the U.S. and this was within the past decade, I suspect that is management speak for “has a mental health issue that we have to give him ADA leave for.” Or possibly “has a chemical dependancy issule that we have to give him ADA leave for.” Course, you were there, its possible he had plane tickets to Bermuda. It was in 1989 or 1990. No ADA issues. My co-worker, who I was on good terms with, even told me that he wasn’t doing anything for those two weeks. He even told me, “Gary (the manager) is making me take those weeks off, or I don’t get my vacation this year.” One of the guys who had been Gary’s assistant for years came over to the store I was at before I was promoted to help out. He told us he had almost 3 months of vacation time accrued, and was never allowed to take it. That manager was an _asshole!_ Rant over. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/72 "2006-07-13T20:28:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why are parents any more special than non-parents? I think it’s a form of unfair favoritism. Maybe I need to take some weeks off after my parents die for bereavement, arrangements and tie up all the loose strings? (In fact, I did have to take two weeks of my \*vacation \*time after my Father died) You can have your weeks of bereavement leave too (actually I think it is 5 days). So, are you telling me that if, for example, you have a physical disability that requires you to go to the hospital once a month - it is unfair because noone else gets the same sick leave? Parental leave is a pretty basic condition of employment in my country and I think it is in most European countries and Australia - you telling me we (childless people) are all mad to accept it? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/73 "2006-07-13T20:54:56Z")
> [@Wile E](#): > > If someone quits without the usual two week notice I consider them as abandoning the job and they don’t get references. Probably won’t matter. In most jobs I’ve been in, we don’t give references, just confirmation of employment. References are considered too risky - a good one for someone who screws up at the next job can lead to a suit, a bad one leading to someone not getting a job can lead to a suit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/74 "2006-07-13T20:55:35Z")
If you live in Canada and have, for example, four kids, you get four years off with pay in your working life. I get (counts on fingers…) none. We officially have Employment Insurance benefits here, but in practice very few people ever qualify to collect them (only parental leave and lay-offs are paid out usually). I don’t get to opt out of a system I will never collect back from, either. Is this fair? Not really, but nobody ever said life was fair. I accept that I pay for other peoples’ choice to have children because they’re the majority, but I don’t have to like it much. I’m trying not to be too bitter, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/75 "2006-07-13T21:10:08Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > If you live in Canada and have, for example, four kids, you get four years off with pay in your working life. I get (counts on fingers…) none. We officially have Employment Insurance benefits here, but in practice very few people ever qualify to collect them (only parental leave and lay-offs are paid out usually). I don’t get to opt out of a system I will never collect back from, either. Is this fair? Not really, but nobody ever said life was fair. I accept that I pay for other peoples’ choice to have children because they’re the majority, but I don’t have to like it much. I’m trying not to be too bitter, though. 🙂 Basically society will be screwed (no pun intended) if people don’t procreate - if it makes you less bitter?! ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/76 "2006-07-13T21:16:27Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > Basically society will be screwed (no pun intended) if people don’t procreate - if it makes you less bitter?! They are not equivalant statements. People will procreate with or without maternity leave. The existence of maternity leave does not mean people will procreate. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/77 "2006-07-13T21:20:15Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > If you live in Canada and have, for example, four kids, you get four years off with pay in your working life. I get (counts on fingers…) none. We officially have Employment Insurance benefits here, but in practice very few people ever qualify to collect them (only parental leave and lay-offs are paid out usually). I don’t get to opt out of a system I will never collect back from, either. Is this fair? Not really, but nobody ever said life was fair. I accept that I pay for other peoples’ choice to have children because they’re the majority, but I don’t have to like it much. I’m trying not to be too bitter, though. 🙂 That’s the whole point of insurance, though…there have to be non-collecting people out there paying in, or it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/78 "2006-07-13T21:33:21Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > Basically society will be screwed (no pun intended) if people don’t procreate - if it makes you less bitter?! Nah, I don’t buy the “society will be screwed if we don’t give parents more time off” excuse. A better question is, will society collapse if we give CBC’s the same amount of time off? As a CBC, I don’t “owe” you a damn thing. I’ll add a 😉 just no one thinks I’m sitting here pounding my fists over this or something. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/79 "2006-07-13T21:34:43Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > If you live in Canada and have, for example, four kids, you get four years off with pay in your working life. I get (counts on fingers…) none. We officially have Employment Insurance benefits here, but in practice very few people ever qualify to collect them (only parental leave and lay-offs are paid out usually). I don’t get to opt out of a system I will never collect back from, either. Is this fair? Not really, but nobody ever said life was fair. I accept that I pay for other peoples’ choice to have children because they’re the majority, but I don’t have to like it much. I’m trying not to be too bitter, though. 🙂 But you get to live in a society (and some day grow old in a society) populated by people that had the benefit of full-time, individualized care in their youth. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025/80 "2006-07-13T22:11:18Z")
So in January 2004 I planned a vacation with my wife and both kids. My oldest is out of school and is a manager for a big box store. I told him to arrange for Dec 24-31 off. I knew this should not be a real problem as it is after Christmas (Yeah the 26th is big, but the rest of the week can be dead) So he puts in for Vacation. His manager tells him no. He asks why. The manager gives him some song and dance about inventory (end of January). My son calls me, and asks what to do. I told him to tell his manager and HR that he was taking that week off it was a family vacation and not subject to movement. The only question that would remain to be answered would be would he be working for them when he returned from Hawaii. By the time December rolled around, the manager was gone, and my son went to Hawaii. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-cow-orkers-day-off-is-more-important-than-your-day-off/364025.md?page=5)