# Your explaination for this work of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223 "2011-11-17T14:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/201 "2011-11-18T22:22:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **Troppus** claims that you may be a Jehovah’s Witness, is this true? How would Troppus know? Didn’t you also notice that I use the term Yah, and my statements that ought to lead you to believe that I’d NEVER be affiliated with a group that puts great emphasis on the name, and then (in my opinion,) gets it wrong on top of it? But let someone who is not sufficiently concerned with refraining from bearing false witness come along and tell you I’m a Jehovah’s Witness, somone with no way of knowing whether this is true or not, and you take it seriously? If you’re all about Love, is there no Love of truth in God’s people? But as you are I think, sincere, rather than mocking, I will tell you that I do not adhere to any group or formal religious institution. I’m just me and I draw all doctrine from the scripture to the best of my ability, not leaving any part out or adding anything else in. A simple proposition. Now it may be I am imperfect, so I do not mind someone bringing something to my attention that I may have missed, and I’m willing to believe I could be wrong in some doctrine, but you’d have to prove it out of scripture rather than some man’s reasoning. Now, if the concept of sin is gone, why then did Paul write: “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.” Why’d Paul write this verse? Why did James write this verse? Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded." James 4:8 Why the need to cleanse oneself, if one has not sinned because there is no sin? Hint: One can still be unclean by defiling oneself. Let no man call unclean that which God has made unclean, referred to the gentiles, when Peter received his vision of the mission to them. It doesn’t mean all things by which one was defiled are now clean, obviously, because there wouldn’t exist an unclean thing that couldn’t enter the city. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/202 "2011-11-18T22:25:54Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > My apologies, **David42**. Your claims come pretty close to those made by Witnesses. And you are more than welcome to guess at my beliefs, speak for me, or ask direct questions. I’m an open book. So what is the denomination you subscribe to, and from which translation do you draw your conclusions? It would certainly clear things up if we were referring to the same version. Apology accepted. As I recently posted, I belong to no denomination. I am friendly with people as my brothers in many denominations. I do not use any particular translation in the sense of favoring it. I may post King James, but that’s beacuse its the default at BLB. I use my interlinear and look to the greek and Hebrew frequently, rather than rely on a translator I know nothing of and cannot question. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/203 "2011-11-18T22:37:33Z")
X-Ray, you asked me a question and limited the possible answers to A or B. I answered C. You’re claiming I didn’t answer because I wouldn’t let you limit me to A or B when my view is C, which you won’t allow for. You’re trying to force me into either confessing that the cited scholars are authority, or that I personally am the authority, both of which give you an advantage, and neither of which is my view. You want to ask a non-manipulative question, such as “What then, in your view is authority?” and I’d have given the straightforward answer you claim to want: The scripture is the authority, and I have said that more than enough times to be plain. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/204 "2011-11-18T22:41:31Z")
> [@David42](#): > > Grace is not a license to sin but you have obviously bought into the antinomian teaching and believe that it is. I want to thank you for that term ‘Antinomianism’ I didn’t know of it but like what I have read of it so far, perhaps one day I will learn to pronounce it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/205 "2011-11-18T22:50:35Z")
> [@David42](#): > > X-Ray, you asked me a question and limited the possible answers to A or B. I answered C. No, I didn’t. You claimed someone else’s interpretation of scripture was incorrect and you called them false prophets, yet you supplied your own interpretation. I asked the following: > [@](#): > > Why should anyone trust you regarding Bible translation? Why should anyone that attempts to explain the Bible to others be called a false prophet or a prophet at all? Since you’re giving us your interpretation, are you a prophet? If not, how is it that you’re different than the folks that wrote what I linked in post #165? Where did I limit you giving answers to three choices? You then accused me of trying to trick you, trying to force you and asking you to appeal to your own authority which is all nonsense. > [@](#): > > You’re claiming I didn’t answer because I wouldn’t let you limit me to A or B when my view is C, which you won’t allow for. You’re making that up. Show me where I limited you to three choices. > [@](#): > > You’re trying to force me into either confessing that the cited scholars are authority, or that I personally am the authority, both of which give you an advantage, and neither of which is my view. That’s not what I did. Read my questions again. > [@](#): > > You want to ask a non-manipulative question, such as “What then, in your view is authority?” I never asked you that. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/206 "2011-11-18T22:55:35Z")
> [@David42](#): > > How would Troppus know? Didn’t you also notice that I use the term Yah, and my statements that ought to lead you to believe that I’d NEVER be affiliated with a group that puts great emphasis on the name, and then (in my opinion,) gets it wrong on top of it? > > But let someone who is not sufficiently concerned with refraining from bearing false witness come along and tell you I’m a Jehovah’s Witness, somone with no way of knowing whether this is true or not, and you take it seriously? If you’re all about Love, is there no Love of truth in God’s people? > > But as you are I think, sincere, rather than mocking, I will tell you that I do not adhere to any group or formal religious institution. I’m just me and I draw all doctrine from the scripture to the best of my ability, not leaving any part out or adding anything else in. A simple proposition. I did clarify it. I really wanted to know what is your witness for Him. In other words what have you experienced with Him? It’s fairly easy to ask a JW that question because of the name of their faith. Also not celebrating holidays is a mark of that faith, so putting those together seemed like a great opportunity to be able to give your witness which is what Jesus asked us to do. > [@](#): > > Now it may be I am imperfect, so I do not mind someone bringing something to my attention that I may have missed, and I’m willing to believe I could be wrong in some doctrine, but you’d have to prove it out of scripture rather than some man’s reasoning. That’s fine, we are all imperfect, it is part of the plan, for God to make perfecting out of our mess of imperfectness. And iron sharpens iron so we are to learn from each other. > [@](#): > > Now, if the concept of sin is gone, why then did Paul write: > > “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.” Why’d Paul write this verse? I did say that Paul was torn between his flesh and the spirit of the Lord, this battle of OT law and NT grace, this battle between the two > [@](#): > > Why did James write this verse? > > Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded." James 4:8 Why the need to cleanse oneself, if one has not sinned because there is no sin? Double minded, same as Paul, Flesh vs Spirit. But the Spirit has already won But going further in this King David sinned by the murder of Uriah, that sin persisted till removed by God, which caused God to create a new timeline to correct this time where David departed from walking with God and took matters into his own hands and didn’t trust God to make things right. So yes I will admit it is possible to sin for a time under grace, though I fully believe God will correct it at a time which due to you learning from your mistakes the sin is removed (as that is what you needed to learn). But David’s sin was not trusting God and trying to manipulate the circumstances not a violation of the law, Or that’s how I take it. > [@](#): > > Hint: One can still be unclean by defiling oneself. Let no man call unclean that which God has made unclean, referred to the gentiles, when Peter received his vision of the mission to them. It doesn’t mean all things by which one was defiled are now clean, obviously, because there wouldn’t exist an unclean thing that couldn’t enter the city. I believe that should read ‘that God has made clean’. The food was still unclean for some, but not for Peter. God can make things clean for you that are not clean for others. Something about being protected from lethal snake bites comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/207 "2011-11-18T23:04:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe that should read ‘that God has made clean’. The food was still unclean for some, but not for Peter. God can make things clean for you that are not clean for others. Something about being protected from lethal snake bites comes to mind. Umm, yes, it should be “God has made clean” my mistake. I’m going to have to go now but perhaps tomorrow or in a few hours I might discuss some more. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/208 "2011-11-18T23:06:55Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I want to thank you for that term ‘Antinomianism’ I didn’t know of it but like what I have read of it so far, perhaps one day I will learn to pronounce it 🙂 you’re welcome. Perhaps being introduced to a new concept you might allow your views to evolve. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/209 "2011-11-18T23:50:10Z")
What’s the over/under on who’s the better Christian, here? Anybody got odds? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/210 "2011-11-19T01:04:12Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > What’s the over/under on who’s the better Christian, here? Anybody got odds? I’ll give you 4/3 on the little fella. “Read the scriptures!” “No _you_ read the scriptures!” With that in mind, who’s to say that _my_ interpretation isn’t correct? I think this thread is having the opposite effect of what was hoped. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/211 "2011-11-19T02:15:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God … There are no gods. The truth value of the rest of your statements is certainly false, but at the least, irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/212 "2011-11-19T02:32:16Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > There are no gods. > > The truth value of the rest of your statements is certainly false, but at the least, irrelevant. So you have no explanation for it Thanks for playing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/213 "2011-11-19T02:46:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So you have no explanation for it > > Thanks for playing > > 🙂 I do. It’s the one that claim an imaginary being exists that have no proof for it. The god with the 14 hands in the (x) religion does not exist either. It’ is their followers who can’t prove or explain it. Same goes with all religions. There are no gods. That’s the truth. The rest is baseless claims. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/214 "2011-11-19T13:16:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because God does not want us to depend on facts, but the relationship between God and man. > > The OT system is based on rules and regulations, the Law etc. But we were meant and designed not to follow the Law, but to try new things without bounds, to learn and explore, to ever experience new and wonderful things. To God we are but infants learning how to crawl. What is impossible for us now will not forever be, but hard laws and what we think are facts limit us hinder our growth and prevent us from seeing outside the box we have crawled into. It comes from all things are possible with God, though He has to take us there when we are ready. > > The way was made clear by Jesus. Facts are truth, so your God doesn’t care for the truth? And there is no proof that jesus said anything, all was written by some one else and so if that person just used Jesus’s so he felt he could push an idea on some one there is no way to prove Jesus said or did anything. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/215 "2011-11-19T13:25:56Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God doesn’t have a religion, but a relationship. I follow and serve Lord Jesus and that is how I would define myself. It seams to me that the discription of Christianity is to follow Jesus’s teachings, but one can’t prove they were Jesus’s teachings because they were second hand,and in some cases contradictory, some of what Jesus was said to had said is contradictory to other’s and you are taking the belief of the RC and Orthodox bishops as to what was said ,or inspired or the word of God. That of course is your right, but it is still only a belief and there is no proof. It sure doesn’t bother me what you believe but you help me to see that your God and religion is not one I would want to follow, you can believe what another has said that it was of God or Jesus,but I would consider Poly ot Tomdeb’s ideas before yours, they think of their God and Jesus as a loving,forgiving, compassionate being, you give too much credit to a demon as I see it. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/216 "2011-11-19T13:41:07Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I do not see where you get the presumption that if Yah worked through kanicbird for one person, that Yah must work through kanicbird to reach all persons. Yah isn’t doing a very good job; at least Kbird isn’t swaying many to his beliefs, and they are just his own personal religious beliefs. He claims to follow a book that was considered the word of God by human’s, and doesn’t want to believe humans wrote it, claims on one hand not to be Christian but, says he worships and follows the Christian God. If God is using Kbird he is turning more people against God than toward him. Kbird says he talks to God directly and should be able to get instructions directly from God to settle all the world’s problems. He sure didn’t get through to anyone on this board. The Jewish people do not consider that there are any more prophets and I don’t think many other Biblical people do either, the NT warns of false prophets. It is Kbird’s right to think as he wishes but beliefs are not facts, and to say God doesn’t care for or work for facts would mean God doesn’t want truth known. His discription of his God sounds more to me like some discribe Satan, he gives Satan a lot of power,and shows God to be a cruel, self-centered being. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/217 "2011-11-19T13:42:24Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I have never seen a serious claim that Yah wrote the scripture with his own hands made by theologians. The claim is that Yah inspired it. > > Saying “supposedly God wrote the Bible,” is a strawman that the deriders of religion build to mock the claims adherents. > > Yeah there are some whackos who insist that men didn’t write the bible and Yah was dictating every last word, but that’s not what “inspire” means. > > To illustrate: I am a songwriter. Occasionally someone inspires me to write a song. This means I got the spark of an idea from them. But did this person tell me every last word to write? No, they did not dictate the words of the song even though they gave me the idea. > > In all of the bible there is one thing it claims Yah wrote–the ten commandments, with His finger, in stone. If God is a spirit does he need a finger? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/218 "2011-11-19T13:46:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I think this thread demonstrates how God uses man, at least a theory of how that could happen. So it is God who is doing the communication through man, man is just copying and learning from the inspiration. This is how I take the scripture writings, actually every writing that has ever existed as all creation is from God, though God uses man for some of creation. > > By my post is to challenge the unsupported assertions of Monavis that every writing was made by man (this is more a direct quote from another thread). I don’t believe he can prove it without assumptions such as using Occam’s razor, nor do I believe it to be accurate. If **Monavis** makes such assumptions he should state them. > > The handwriting on the wall in the book of Daniel did not seem to be written by humans. I guess the writings in Aesops Fables were also true! The cartoons show animals get squashed then come back to life, because it was written and youcan see it, then it must be true? That is how I see your explaination. I guess you also believe a man can bear 7 children I think I have stated that fact in other quotes I bore 7 children and am not a he! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/219 "2011-11-19T13:54:52Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I must have missed kanicbird’s claim that it can only happen through him. > > I am entirely willing to believe that Yah can and does work through people. But I think you might have missed kanicbird’s message of love. He’s posted about it several times. This is how the world can get along–“Love your neighbor as yourself.” The world is too busy criticizing one another to take it seriously, One reason is because some people abuse this message for political gain. For instance, do I believe that Rick Perry loves me? Do I believe that he will treat me as he desires to be treated? It appears more likely that he is boasting of his christianity for his own purposes, namely, success in politics. > > yes, we could all get along if we loved one another. why do you reject the message kanicbird has and then criticize him for not having a message the whole world can use? I reject the message that Kanicbird tries to send because he even admits he doesn’t use logic. Truth must be proven and he has no proof for any of his strong beliefs. if it helps you to be a better person fine, I just do not believe a Supreme being can be as cruel, lack compassion, and hide himself from others, I don’t believe that God gave a Moses the 10 commandments some are just common sense for people to get along and respect the rights of other’s. Belief is just that…Belief. It is a personal thing and I see no difference in God telling Kbird something or Muhammad. One choses what they want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/220 "2011-11-19T13:58:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought he came to tell weak people they should turn the other cheek and resist not evil, forgiving strong folks their trespasses in between rendering unto Caesar? I would add Jesus was quoted as telling a woman that hecame only for the house of Israel. If that is true then he didn’t come to save all people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=12)