# Your explaination for this work of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223 "2011-11-17T14:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/321 "2011-11-20T23:53:31Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > So good and bad things could or could not be the work of your god or not. In other words, events such as the OP describes mean nothing. I’m comfortable with that conclusion. No, it doesn’t follow that the OP has to mean nothing. Humans do good and evil. Does that fact make any research into humans “mean nothing?” ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/322 "2011-11-21T00:54:04Z")
> [@David42](#): > > This would make more sense if you showed that there aren’t christians who attribute bad things to Yah. For people who read carefully, Yah takes credit for calamities and other evils. _Some individuals may do this, but its not present in this thread._ (italics mine) Yeah, keep your insults to yourself, **David42**. One doesn’t have to read the Bible carefully, you could refer to post #48, wherein God’s admission of creating evil was already mentioned, and cited. See below: > [@Troppus](#): > > Look at the multiple translations of [Isaiah 45:7](http://bible.cc/isaiah/45-7.htm). In some translations, God claims to be repsonsible for light, darkness, disaster and calamity. (Not a big surprise; if God is responsible for sunny days and moonlit nights, he might as well own the hurricanes, tornadoes, and earthquakes as well.) But many translations have God claiming repsonsibility for creating evil. That is quite a deviation from taking credit for natural phenomena, makes Satan’s role rather redundant, and puts a different spin on the meaning of that verse. The individual’s understanding of the same verse depends on the translation in his lap. ↑ Oh! Was that me? Can’t be. **David42** stated that no one in this thread reads the Bible carefully! Must have been a coincidence. Could it be… \ **Satan**?!? \ I realize that some devout Christians feel you have a leg-up on Biblical studies, but some of us have studied the Good Book as a literary work without bias, with a critical eye, and via multiple sources. (Not me, I’ve only barely studied it in an academic environment, as the constant disputes among believers in the classroom derail most any attempt at examining the text. And Good God, you should hear what happens when a student sneezes: the santicmonious "Bless You! God Bless You!! May God Bless You!'s echo around the room for half an hour as each Christian ensures that others hear the sincere piety in their voices. If you want to learn anything in a Bible course, don’t take it during cold and flu season.) And for those of us with only a passing familiarity, Google-fu leads to a wealth of sources for Biblical exegesis. Deep meditation isn’t a requirement for understanding the mythical influences that were borrowed by the authors or the cultural values during the period this book was written. As far as studying Greek, Latin, and every other early translation: no longer necessary for the layman as all translations are neatly available with a couple clicks. [Biblios](http://biblos.com/)has a ton of modern translations and the entire site is one of the coolest, most comprehensive reference cites around. Game-changer for sure. Maybe that’s the reason these discussions peter out; because there isn’t much “evidence” believers can offer that a layman can’t confirm or deny in matter of minutes. Maybe this is why **kanicbird** ’s testimony is somewhat intriguing (albeit perplexing); we can say “Nah.” We can poke a stick at it, but none of us can examine or dispute his personal revelations unless he posts a verse that references his fancies. But once we have that verse, it’s on. ---
**Author:** ![Consensus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Consensus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consensus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/323 "2011-11-21T01:12:50Z")
If the OP believes it to be the work of god it is not up to us to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/324 "2011-11-21T01:27:22Z")
> [@David42](#): > > kanicbird, have you considered that Yah sent the cop to break you of your drinking and driving problem, and it was satan who appeared, disguised as Michael? What if satan wants you to continue being a drunk driver? > > You know that satan appears as an angel of light, do you not? Read post #297 in reference to this, it is a very rare set of circumstances that lead up to a situation which I may or may not have been over the limit. To me it does sound like the occasional flub-up that God corrects. But even if you are correct, then what of it, all is working for the Good, so even if I am mistaken but my heart if for God and seeking God always then God will correct it in His time. And yes I do know that scripture. Perhaps part of the reason for this post is to go over that event. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/325 "2011-11-21T01:29:28Z")
> [@Consensus](#): > > If the OP believes it to be the work of god it is not up to us to explain it. The OP _asked_ for our explanation of this work of God. Aside from that, occasionally persons who claims they hear or see God do very bad things in the name of that impression. [See CNN video about White House shooter Ortega here](http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-18/us/us_white-house-shooting-profile_1_idaho-man-video-shot-video-pitch?_s=PM:US). Such events cause us to question claims of divine intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/326 "2011-11-21T02:05:03Z")
> [@David42](#): > > No, it doesn’t follow that the OP has to mean nothing. > > Humans do good and evil. Does that fact make any research into humans “mean nothing?” You miss the point spectacularly. It’s not about meaning in general, it’s about evidential meaning. If the OP says “hey, event A happened, therefore my god exists” but it turns out that _every single alternative to “event A happened”_ would also be compatible with his god existing, then “event A” and every alternative to event A are not meaningful when it comes to evidence for his god. ---
**Author:** ![Consensus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@Consensus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consensus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/327 "2011-11-21T02:05:47Z")
‘This work of god’ _is_ the explenation of the OP. All we can do is agree or disagree with that explenation. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/328 "2011-11-21T02:12:47Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Read post #297 in reference to this, it is a very rare set of circumstances that lead up to a situation which I may or may not have been over the limit. > > To me it does sound like the occasional flub-up that God corrects. > > But even if you are correct, then what of it, all is working for the Good, so even if I am mistaken but my heart if for God and seeking God always then God will correct it in His time. > > And yes I do know that scripture. Perhaps part of the reason for this post is to go over that event. I don’t question your motivation. I am sure that love does motivate you. But love means many things to many people; are you measuring your love by 1 Cor 13? But your method of discerning spirits seems of concern to me. It seems to me that your method is some amalgam of a ‘gift’ and love which I really don’t quite understand. Now some gifts, Paul writes, are for the individual himself, such as a speaker of tongues that is not interpreted to the church; whereas other gifts are for the edification of others, such as prophecy. Which do you suppose a gift of discerning spirits is? Is it for you alone, or is it to help others with? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/329 "2011-11-21T02:30:33Z")
**Kanicbird** , if what you’re telling us in this thread is true, please, see about getting some professional help. I’m not being snarky – I’m serious. This is not healthy. (And drinking and driving is NOT something to fool around with, even if “God will protect you”, I doubt it’s something he’d approve of) Seriously, get help. Please. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/330 "2011-11-21T02:36:42Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > (italics mine) > > Yeah, keep your insults to yourself, **David42**. I don’t see where there’s an insult there, but if there was, I am sorry for it. > [@Troppus](#): > > ↑ Oh! Was that me? Can’t be. **David42** stated that no one in this thread reads the Bible carefully! Must have been a coincidence. Could it be… \ **Satan**?!? \ I thought I said, “for people who read carefully…” and it wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. I wrote that because it is very common for people who will say they know the bible to not know about it. Perhaps I would conclude that you do in fact read carefully because you made a post about it. > [@Troppus](#): > > I realize that some devout Christians feel you have a leg-up on Biblical studies, but some of us have studied the Good Book as a literary work without bias, with a critical eye, and via multiple sources. (Not me, I’ve only barely studied it in an academic environment, as the constant disputes among believers in the classroom derail most any attempt at examining the text. And Good God, you should hear what happens when a student sneezes: the santicmonious "Bless You! God Bless You!! May God Bless You!'s echo around the room for half an hour as each Christian ensures that others hear the sincere piety in their voices. If you want to learn anything in a Bible course, don’t take it during cold and flu season.) And for those of us with only a passing familiarity, Google-fu leads to a wealth of sources for Biblical exegesis. Deep meditation isn’t a requirement for understanding the mythical influences that were borrowed by the authors or the cultural values during the period this book was written. As far as studying Greek, Latin, and every other early translation: no longer necessary for the layman as all translations are neatly available with a couple clicks. [Biblios](http://biblos.com/)has a ton of modern translations and the entire site is one of the coolest, most comprehensive reference cites around. Game-changer for sure. > > Maybe that’s the reason these discussions peter out; because there isn’t much “evidence” believers can offer that a layman can’t confirm or deny in matter of minutes. Maybe this is why **kanicbird** ’s testimony is somewhat intriguing (albeit perplexing); we can say “Nah.” We can poke a stick at it, but none of us can examine or dispute his personal revelations unless he posts a verse that references his fancies. But once we have that verse, it’s on. If you think a few clicks on isolated subjects or verses is the equivalent of years of dedicated study of the scripture, you are dreaming. You may also make a few clicks and learn some human anatomy and surgery methods, but that doesn’t make you a surgeon. You write as though I try to hide the ease of the internet from dopers, yet you seem not to acknowledge that I have been very free with knowledge of internet study tools, i.e., Blue Letter Bible. It’s about the equivalent of Biblos. Or is your complaint that I didn’t mention ALL internet sites that offer study tools? I even went to the trouble to briefly explain a little about how to use BLB. But I really wanna ask you, if the Hebrew and Greek aren’t useful or needed, why do both BLB and Biblos offer it? Evidently some bible scholars do, after all, think that original languages are a good thing to look at. Your English Translation Only doctrine of exegesis is doubtful and not impressive, so you’ll pardon me if I happen to disregard your lesser-informed opinions that you seem to form in the matter of a few clicks and with less deep consideration than you \*could \*give it. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/331 "2011-11-21T02:44:35Z")
This has been a terrible thread for awhile now. Either kanicbird is not posting in good faith, and we’re all having a laugh in the wrong forum, or he is posting in good faith and everyone else is just knocking on the aquarium glass. Either way, GD is a worse place to be because of it. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/332 "2011-11-21T02:50:41Z")
Troppus, for your education, here’s an outline of how to perform exegesis. > **[Guidelines for Exegetical Papers](http://www.crivoice.org/exegesisformat.html)** > > Detailed guidelines to aid in the interpretation of a biblical text, especially > intended to assist the writing of exegetical papers in an educational setting. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/333 "2011-11-21T02:58:03Z")
> [@David42](#): > > But I really wanna ask you, if the Hebrew and Greek aren’t useful or needed, why do both BLB and Biblos offer it? Evidently some bible scholars do, after all, think that original languages are a good thing to look at. > > Your English Translation Only doctrine of exegesis is doubtful and not impressive, so you’ll pardon me if I happen to disregard your lesser-informed opinions that you seem to form in the matter of a few clicks and with less deep consideration than you \*could \*give it. You are welcome to gift me with a Greek or Latin Bible, but I can only read English. Luckily, the numerous scholars who have an extensive background in Greek and Latin offer trustworthy translations and commentary that a layman can read. And just like any other source or cite, I don’t take one person’s word as fact; I look at several works to find common agreement. And because I have zero interest in learning Greek or Latin, I have zero desire to spend the years necessary to mastery the nuances and subtleties of a dead language, or one that I’ll never use in my daily life and travels. I choose to spend my time studying other subjects, such as literature, history, and natural history. Note I mentioned literature first: as I am not a believer, I can only examine the Bible as an intriguing literary work, and nothing more. When I have questions about how believers \*feel \*about a certain passage: I have to ask someone experienced in those matters, and I respect their answer. (Unless it’s really far out, which \*\*kanicbird’s \*\*assertions seem to be.) As I stated above: I can dispute the meaning, intent, and historical context of any verse in the Book either from the formal studies I have done, or from using my own references on hand and online. I am not unchurched; I attended several denominations as a kid, and still attend whenever the spirit moves me. My experience with the Bible is more than _passing_, but I am unable to experience the evident smugness you feel simply because you apply emotion to the verses you read. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/334 "2011-11-21T03:07:38Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > You are welcome to gift me with a Greek or Latin Bible, but I can only read English. Luckily, the numerous scholars who have an extensive background in Greek and Latin offer trustworthy translations and commentary that a layman can read. And just like any other source or cite, I don’t take one person’s word as fact; I look at several works to find common agreement. And because I have zero interest in learning Greek or Latin, I have zero desire to spend the years necessary to mastery the nuances and subtleties of a dead language, or one that I’ll never use in my daily life and travels. I choose to spend my time studying other subjects, such as literature, history, and natural history. Note I mentioned literature first: as I am not a believer, I can only examine the Bible as an intriguing literary work, and nothing more. When I have questions about how believers \*feel \*about a certain passage: I have to ask someone experienced in those matters, and I respect their answer. (Unless it’s really far out, which \*\*kanicbird’s \*\*assertions seem to be.) > > As I stated above: I can dispute the meaning, intent, and historical context of any verse in the Book either from the formal studies I have done, or from using my own references on hand and online. I am not unchurched; I attended several denominations as a kid, and still attend whenever the spirit moves me. My experience with the Bible is more than _passing_, but I am unable to experience the evident smugness you feel simply because you apply emotion to the verses you read. You seem to miss that my motivation here is to help kanicbird out of a probably mistaken predicament? I don’t know how you get this emotional-laden argument, I am simply pointing out what scripture says and applying it to kanicbird’s situation. It’s not bothering him, I don’t think. In what manner should I try to help kanicbird instead? And if I disagree with your manner too much, why don’t you try explaining to kanicbird his mistake? I really don’t see the basis of your objections other than you seem to be annoyed if people try to take a talk about the bible seriously. You seem to be after me personally rather than my arguments, since you keep talking about the arrogance you perceive. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/335 "2011-11-21T03:29:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So following all that, my take is 1: God wanted to state His case to **The Other Waldo Pepper** and/or others here and 2: God used me for this, and also 3: God used the Mod to start a new thread on it which this is (regardless of the **Marley23** intentions for posting). > > So any other explanations that can possibly explain this? Kanic, we would have to start out by proving the existence of a god of any kind. Can you do that? Because unless the answer is yes and you can conclusively show such proof, the only explanation is coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/336 "2011-11-21T04:20:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’ve had similar things happen. I had a cop stop me while I was with 3 people who where fairly to very drunk, and I have also has some to drink. There were open bottles of wine in my car, and I was exceeding the speed limit by a fair amount when he started his pursuit. > > At my side appeared Arch Angel Micheal who told the officer ‘you are not needed here, I am watching over them’, the officer immediately returned my license wished me a good day and returned to his car. > > When you are doing God’s work you are above earthly authority. I can’t help it. I keep resisting, but I just can’t. I keep imagining the following scenario: _Trooper:_ Let me see your identification. _Michael:_ [_with a small wave of his hand_] You don’t need to see his identification. _Trooper:_ We don’t need to see his identification. _Michael:_ These aren’t the drunks you’re looking for. _Trooper:_ These aren’t the drunks we’re looking for. _Michael:_ He can go about his business. _Trooper:_ You can go about your business. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/337 "2011-11-21T04:39:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Kanic, we would have to start out by proving the existence of a god of any kind. Can you do that? Because unless the answer is yes and you can conclusively show such proof, the only explanation is coincidence. I can think of two others. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/338 "2011-11-21T05:24:59Z")
> [@David42](#): > > You seem to miss that my motivation here is to help kanicbird out of a probably mistaken predicament? I don’t know how you get this emotional-laden argument, I am simply pointing out what scripture says and applying it to kanicbird’s situation. It’s not bothering him, I don’t think. > > In what manner should I try to help kanicbird instead? And if I disagree with your manner too much, why don’t you try explaining to kanicbird his mistake? > > I really don’t see the basis of your objections other than you seem to be annoyed if people try to take a talk about the bible seriously. You seem to be after me personally rather than my arguments, since you keep talking about the arrogance you perceive. I’ve pointed out your baseless condescencion a couple times, that is enough reason to question your authority over all things Biblical. You claim to want to help **kanicbird** , and correct his “mistakes”, yet you haven’t stated what credentials you possess that enable you to perform this task, though you have admitted that you are self-taught and unaffiliated. In fact, although \*\*kanicbird \*\*has opened himself up for discussion and is well aware that he is likely to meet dissension on this board, he hasn’t asked any of us for help. Aside from all that, throughout this thread both you and **kanicbird** have sworn the ability to receive private messages from God which cannot be tested, proven or demonstrated for others. And you are arguing over which of you has the correct perception of personal spiritual epiphany?? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/339 "2011-11-21T06:41:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I can’t help it. I keep resisting, but I just can’t. I keep imagining the following scenario: > > _Trooper:_ Let me see your identification. > _Michael:_ [_with a small wave of his hand_] You don’t need to see his identification. > _Trooper:_ We don’t need to see his identification. > _Michael:_ These aren’t the drunks you’re looking for. > _Trooper:_ These aren’t the drunks we’re looking for. > _Michael:_ He can go about his business. > _Trooper:_ You can go about your business. Ahem, post #279, thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/340 "2011-11-21T07:59:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ahem, post #279, thank you very much! Ahem, post #277, thank you very much! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=18)