# Your explaination for this work of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223 "2011-11-17T14:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/21 "2011-11-17T15:10:51Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > **Kanicbird** - how often would you say that this sort of coincidence happens to you? Do you keep track? > > If not, why not? Were I in your shoes, I think I would keep track. I’d write down the dates and the ‘message’. Perhaps there is a ‘bigger picture’ that you are supposed to be getting. > > This goes along with what I’ve previously said - it seems to me that if God was attempting to reach **The Other Waldo Pepper** , he’d just do it directly. In your opinion, he does that with you already - right? So perhaps God is trying to get your attention with a message that is bigger than the message to **The Other Waldo Pepper** , at first blush, seems. If this train of thought is good and you’ve thought about this, then what do you think God is trying to tell **you**? By the same token, why did Yah not fill the thoughts of the people of Nineveh with the knowledge that they needed to repent? Why tell Jonah to go tell them? Why not “tell Nineveh directly?” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/22 "2011-11-17T15:12:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, of course, the real point – suggested, but not quite stated, a number of times thus far – is that if you start off your day enough times by reading a Bible verse at random, you’ll occasionally have a day where it seems unusually relevant. And if you start off your day enough times by reading a horoscope prediction, you’ll occasionally get one that’s spot-on. And if you choose stocks by throwing darts, you’ll occasionally pick a winner. The question is, how many times _ **doesn’t** _ it work? Yes, I agree with your line of thinking here. However, I am a bit interested in how **Kanicbird** views things. > [@kanicbird](#): > > All the time, 100% So a lot, okay. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Your not in my shoes though Yes, I realize that. It just seems to me that if God were ‘talking’ to me (or communicating with me), I would want to keep track. I mean, the all powerful creator of the universe tells me something, then it must be important, right? I also figure that it’s the sort of thing that while it maybe very important in the ‘right here right now’, it is probably the sort of thing that should be reflected upon later. That’s why it seems to make sense to keep track. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Why? Why should God work the way you expect Him to instead of the way He wants to? Why are you dictating terms for God? I’m not, at all, that’s why I said ‘it seems to me’. Contacting him directly seems to me to be the best way to get the intended result. No offense, but you could mess up the message. Or, he could be hostile to you and simply ignore the message. These are two reasons why it would seem to me to make more sense to go to him directly. Of course, God wouldn’t _have to do that._ > [@kanicbird](#): > > God works through us all the time, that’s part of the deal 'God with us" (meaning of Emanuel), we are just as valid a way of God working then God working directly (which usually means angels which are another being - and I believe God used angles to select that passage, so God did work ‘directly’ also). Okay - that’s fine I suppose. So do you think that this whole episode was for **The Other Waldo Pepper** ’s benefit? That there was nothing in it for you? > [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe He is trying to get my attention. First those who accuse are usually projecting their faults, so saying God is trying to get my attention to see the bigger picture is most likely what God is trying to do with those who say that. And the message for me was to post this, to help those see the hand of God working in the SDMB, even through non-believers, even in those of other faiths. I’m not saying that God definitely has a bigger message for you - but what if he does? What if, by connecting the various incidents, you could find a greater message? I don’t know, I suppose I’m just trying to advocate for writing down these coincidence. I know I’m not you, but that’s what I would do and the fact that you don’t seems a bit weird to me (but I’m not the religious guy, so perhaps I’m the weird one when it comes to this). ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/23 "2011-11-17T15:13:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Why? Why should God work the way you expect Him to instead of the way He wants to? Why are you dictating terms for God? > > God works through us all the time, that’s part of the deal 'God with us" (meaning of Emanuel), we are just as valid a way of God working then God working directly (which usually means angels which are another being - and I believe God used angles to select that passage, so God did work ‘directly’ also). So God can open a book on a specific page for you but he can’t stop priests fiddling with kids? Or doesn’t want to?? or took his time about it??? Help me out here! ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/24 "2011-11-17T15:14:33Z")
> [@David42](#): > > By the same token, why did Yah not fill the thoughts of the people of Nineveh with the knowledge that they needed to repent? > > Why tell Jonah to go tell them? Why not “tell Nineveh directly?” I’m not familiar with that story - I recognize ‘Jonah’, but not the rest. I can think of stories in the Bible where these questions would be relevant (Joshua’s conquest, for instance). I think they are damned good questions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/25 "2011-11-17T15:33:56Z")
1. Coincidences happen. If this kind of stuff happened to you all the time you would have mentioned it many times before, so I can only conclude that _if_ this happened the way you say it did then it was a unique enough event to point out to the rest of us. 2. The passage you stumbled across is one you know pretty well-I can only assume that you’ve opened the Bible to that passage before. The conversation with **The Other Waldo Pepper** was on your mind, so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if you subconscious caused you to open the book there. 3. People might take you a _little_ more seriously if you would knock off the “Things like this happen to me 100% of the time!” type claims. Even the Jesus described in the Bible had miracle-free ordinary days. edited to add: Note to **kanicbird** -If God guided your hand in the creation of this thread, he needs a proof-reader. Note to God-It’s spelled “explanation”. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/26 "2011-11-17T15:41:37Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, of course, the real point – suggested, but not quite stated, a number of times thus far – is that if you start off your day enough times by reading a Bible verse at random, you’ll occasionally have a day where it seems unusually relevant. And if you start off your day enough times by reading a horoscope prediction, you’ll occasionally get one that’s spot-on. And if you choose stocks by throwing darts, you’ll occasionally pick a winner. The question is, how many times _ **doesn’t** _ it work? For clarity 1: I don’t read it every day 2: I usually stick to the book I am in 3: Very rarely I believe I am lead to open it at ‘random’, in this case after reading that scripture I opened up the SD and read your post, the very next thing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/27 "2011-11-17T15:46:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > For clarity > 1: I don’t read it every day > 2: I usually stick to the book I am in > 3: Very rarely I believe I am lead to open it at ‘random’, in this case after reading that scripture I opened up the SD and read your post, the very next thing. “Facts” added to the original story to bolster claims have little credibility in cases like this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/28 "2011-11-17T15:46:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > For clarity > 1: I don’t read it every day > 2: I usually stick to the book I am in > 3: Very rarely I believe I am lead to open it at ‘random’, in this case after reading that scripture I opened up the SD and read your post, the very next thing. Well, (a) I remain Jewish, sure as (b) the fact that you read and quoted 19:6 while stopping just short of 19:7 struck me as unpersuasive, such that (c) regardless of how often you select a random passage, this particular occasion doesn’t seem to have accomplished the goal in question, especially given that I’ve of course read John 19 before. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/29 "2011-11-17T15:47:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And, as I said at the time, John 19 shows to me that he was executed because _“we have a law, and according to our law He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God.”_ If you want another explanation for why you read it wrong and got corrected, why, then, feel free to assume God is working through me to make you realize the guy who then cried out that God had forsaken him was not in fact affiliated with God and was executed for falsely claiming otherwise. I didn’t go into this on that thread at the request of the Mod. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/30 "2011-11-17T15:53:48Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Hm… > > It would seem **Kanicbird** , that your message was not received well… > > What do you make of this **Kanicbird** , in light of your initial post? The final statement of the Jews in John is they have no king but Caesar, yet acted in rebellion to Caesar’s authority in there opposition to Pilate. In the other Gospel Pilate gave in to the shouts of the Jews and washed his hands of the issue Matt 27:24-25). And of course God found Jesus not guilty and raised Him from the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/31 "2011-11-17T15:55:26Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I am curious–is there a set of circumstances where someone might witness a ‘miracle’ where you would not conclude “confirmation bias?” “Miracle” is the label given solely to rare but beneficial events and not to those events which are rare and unfortunate. Acute megakaryocytic leukemia is very rare, but would you consider it a miracle? Or would you consider the medical cure for that same cancer a miracle? Which of these is the miracle: the rare category 5 hurricane that hit the southern US in 2005, the 1,800 people who perished or the unknown number of survivors? If you choose only the positive outcome as your answer, bias is unquestionably at play. > [@David42](#): > > They are only different in a small way, at least in our modern American understanding of law. Both would say “there is no evidence of this.” One would come before trial if no reasonable proffer of evidence is made; one after hearing any evidence and concluding it is not quite what one was told it was. No, the opposite is true. In the American understanding of the law, there is a vast difference between “not enough evidence to charge someone with a crime” and “This person has been determined to be not guilty of a crime.” I deliberately pulled a verse from the chapter that **kanicbird** referred to, but you are welcome to yank any random verse and plug it into the same multiple translation generator and compare differences. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/32 "2011-11-17T15:55:52Z")
This isn’t something that requires an explanation. Coincidences happen all the time. Whether you notice them and what you make of them depends entirely on your own preconceived notions. I find coincidences entertaining but I don’t think they mean anything in some greater sense. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/33 "2011-11-17T15:55:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The final statement of the Jews in John is they have no king but Caesar, yet acted in rebellion to Caesar’s authority in there opposition to Pilate. > > In the other Gospel Pilate gave in to the shouts of the Jews and washed his hands of the issue Matt 27:24-25). > > And of course God found Jesus not guilty and raised Him from the dead. I’m not disputing the text - I haven’t really dug into it. I’m curious about God’s instructions to you. You state that God was leading you to provide **The Other Waldo Pepper** with verses that would, presumably, correct his understanding. His understanding has not been corrected - in fact, he seems more secure in his position. So what do you think that means with regard to your initial instructions from God? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/34 "2011-11-17T15:58:53Z")
BTW - I’m not trying to be snarky or anything Kanicbird. I’m trying to see things from your point of view. To try on a hypothetical. So, WRT to my last question, it’s not that I don’t think you couldn’t find a reason for God to have you provide those verses. I could think of a few I suppose. I’m just curious why **you** think God is having you do this quest. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/35 "2011-11-17T16:00:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, (a) I remain Jewish, sure as (b) the fact that you read and quoted 19:6 while stopping just short of 19:7 struck me as unpersuasive, such that (c) regardless of how often you select a random passage, this particular occasion doesn’t seem to have accomplished the goal in question, especially given that I’ve of course read John 19 before. If there was intent for you not to read more, I would have posted the verse of John 19:6 directly hear, instead of referencing it. Though there is quite a bit more written in scriptures on Jesus before Pilate then John 19:6-7. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/36 "2011-11-17T16:02:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > All the time, 100%. Every time you read a line of scripture, it happens to someone you know? For the love of God, DON’T READ 2 KINGS 2 AND THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE ZOO!! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/37 "2011-11-17T16:05:09Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’m not disputing the text - I haven’t really dug into it. I’m curious about God’s instructions to you. You state that God was leading you to provide **The Other Waldo Pepper** with verses that would, presumably, correct his understanding. I believe the goal is not to correct his understanding, but as pointed out above, to help people see the bigger picture. How God uses any of us in a much bigger way then just a single person working, and usually uses many people - even when that person/people doesn’t believe they are doing His work, or even believe in God. That ‘revelation’ was from a poster, which I believe gave the meaning for this work of God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/38 "2011-11-17T16:05:20Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Every time you read a line of scripture, it happens to someone you know? > > For the love of God, DON’T READ 2 KINGS 2 AND THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE ZOO!! On the other hand, reading from The Song Of Solomon could be great fun. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/39 "2011-11-17T16:08:49Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Every time you read a line of scripture, it happens to someone you know? > > For the love of God, DON’T READ 2 KINGS 2 AND THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE ZOO!! Whenever I depart from what I would do on my own. I don’t fight it, I go with it and that never fails. So it’s not my regular readings I’m talking about, but the times I feel to do something other then what I planned. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/40 "2011-11-17T16:09:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The final statement of the Jews in John is they have no king but Caesar, yet acted in rebellion to Caesar’s authority in there opposition to Pilate. What opposition? They turned the guy over to him, he asked who they’d like to pardon, they picked Barabbas – when did they show “there opposition” to the guy? > [@](#): > > And of course God found Jesus not guilty and raised Him from the dead. Doesn’t your own eschatology state that an Antichrist will apparently die and be raised from the dead by a power other than God? If you need a supernatural explanation for what happened after Jesus got nailed to the cross, swap in “Christ” for “Antichrist” while figuring the blasphemer tempting folks into transgressing the first commandment had said trick up his sleeve. For my part, leaving aside that three of the stories have him slumping over after taking a drink or whatever – that only the fourth one, long after the fact, introduces the spear, patching an otherwise glaringly obvious hole in the story – the hallucinations of disappointed and suggestible end-of-the-world cultists who partook of ground-up 'shrooms strike me as being roughly as credible as the contradictory stories about what folks found in the tomb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=3)