# Your explaination for this work of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223 "2011-11-17T14:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/381 "2011-11-22T18:25:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You were saved, they are not. He didn’t intervene in their problems, but let you off from yours. OK, it is understood, but it is a really big jump to this conclusion. If it is best for one child to learn one way and your other in another way, would it be wrong to teach them in the ways that they can learn from? As we grow we get to select from among the gods, you may consider them emotions, or how we have learned to react from others. But they are gods. If you act out in selfishness your fate is in that god’s hands, in wrath will go to another god, and love to another. In that way we have free will to explore and see where each one leads. If someone drives drunk with selfishness in their heart they can expect a different god judging them then one with love, or for that matter anger. Over all the Father wants His children to learn and give us time to change our destructive patterns, which is not drunk driving, but the false god that lead to that activity. It is very possible that Love will have some hard things for those who follow Love, such as Jesus suffered and apparently many of the apostles and prophets of God. But also that they can be delivered, no suffer at all, such as Stephen, Elijah and Enoch all that were taken by the Lord directly into the heavens. > [@](#): > > You said that God sent an agent to get you out of a non-lethal inconvenience. You getting written up for a DWI wouldn’t kill you. It might in fact shock you out of the stupid practice of driving while drunk. So God obviously thinks that your inconvenience is more important than some kid dying of hunger while his mother cries above him. ## God wants to teach me His protective ability and to show that those who serve Him are above all earthly authority, it is something that I had to learn and am still learning. As for the question of suffering, it is allowed for a time because one or two person(s) can’t suffer enough, it is impossible, the person could not take it. So the burden of Adam and Eve that we are all sharing, we all take part in that. There is mercy to the degree we experience suffering and it is only used for our learning. As we learn the way of love, one person at a time, Adam and Eve is being refined and transformed into God’s son and daughter, who after this refinement is Lord Jesus being born of all the peoples of the earth. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/382 "2011-11-22T18:39:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How do you reconcile _ **that** _ with a “let not my will, but Thy will, be done” statement that emphasizes they’re like you and me when it comes to being separate entities who will different things? This was Jesus stating, in anguish, I’m sticking with your plan and stand with your will. It is a request Jesus made, in perfect submission to the will of the Father. It may represent a chance for Jesus to have a free will decision point to leave the will of the Father, note Satan left Jesus in the desert for a more opportune time, this may have been it. If Jesus did make a free will decision to leave the will of the Father, He would no longer be walking one with the Father. > [@](#): > > It strikes me as readily fitting a “No one comes to the Father except through me” phrasing, but doesn’t seem to fit his “I and the Father are one” phrasing – unless we read that as being of a piece with the bit in Matthew 25, where folks deny ever feeding and clothing him and visiting him in prison, and he explains that whatever they did to the least of these they did to him. It is hard to understand this, is Jesus the man totally the Father, I’d say no, but is Jesus and all those with Love in their heart, all connected and guided by the Holy Spirit Jesus and the Father, I believe that is more the case. > [@](#): > > Again, help me out, here: how would _ **you** _ react if I patiently explained that neither the Father nor Jesus is any longer a position to forgive sins and decide your fate in the afterlife, but that it’s all up to _ **me:** _ pray in my name, accept me as your mighty lord and savior, go spread the word that nobody gets to them except through me – and, when pressed for details, imagine that I say, hey, what else would you expect from someone like me, brimming as I am with heavenly authority and one with God, who nevertheless sometimes wills differently than I do? To me it is not the physical name Jesus that counts. This differs from many conventional church teachings. It is the meaning behind it, Jesus means Son of Love. He was saying if you want the God of Love, He is the only way, in other words you too must become one with the son (or daughter) of Love, as being the God’s son is the only way. If you make such a claim and your God is Love, you would be Jesus, just by a different physical name. If your god was not the god of love, that would be a different god, and you would be the way for that god. Either way you would be the only way to what ever god it is, as the ‘potential’ child of that god must become the child and that means oneness with the father. As such Jesus told the truth but didn’t require anyone to come through Him, jsut stated for those who are willing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/383 "2011-11-22T18:56:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If Jesus did make a free will decision to leave the will of the Father, He would no longer be walking one with the Father. But isn’t the point that he _ **could** _ have? That he was acknowledging that his will and the Father’s will weren’t the same with that “let not my will, but thy will, be done” bit? That, when he cries out that God has forsaken him, it’s because God can of course forsake him? > [@](#): > > As such Jesus told the truth but didn’t require anyone to come through Him, jsut stated for those who are willing. How do you interpret “No one comes to the Father, except through me”, then? Can I say _“I of course refuse to go through Jesus, since I believe he was deluded or dishonest – possibly a devil-worshiper, possibly just a cult leader who helped folks experiment with drugs – but I hereby accept God the Father, yep, you betcha, no foolin’, does it look like I’'m kidding?”_ How exclusive is the “except through me” bit? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/384 "2011-11-22T19:02:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > OK, it is understood, but it is a really big jump to this conclusion. > > If it is best for one child to learn one way and your other in another way, would it be wrong to teach them in the ways that they can learn from? Dying of starvation or burning to death in a car crash don’t teach anything. Your response to my argument is to rebut it with nonsense? > [@](#): > > As we grow we get to select from among the gods, you may consider them emotions, or how we have learned to react from others. But they are gods. If you act out in selfishness your fate is in that god’s hands, in wrath will go to another god, and love to another. In that way we have free will to explore and see where each one leads. If someone drives drunk with selfishness in their heart they can expect a different god judging them then one with love, or for that matter anger. And if someone dies from hunger because he was unfortunate enough to live in a shitty country, God thinks that’s cool beans. God thinks you getting away with a crime because it would cost your license is more important than every child with cancer on Earth. This is exactly what you are saying. More important than every rape happening right now. More important than every act of incest, every nose being cut off, every firearm being discharged up a woman’s sexual organs, every shuddering sickness and infirmity. You are more important than all those things, because God likes you best. That’s a profoundly ugly and evil view of the world. As I said, your God is a monster, and it is immoral to worship such a being. You do believe that people shouldn’t worship evil Gods, right? > [@](#): > > Over all the Father wants His children to learn and give us time to change our destructive patterns, which is not drunk driving, but the false god that lead to that activity. You are saying that God helped you out of a minor inconvenience and on that same day allowed thousands of people in misery. It was in His power to help them, just as he helped you. According to you, he decided not to. You’re asserting that you are more important than all those people. It’s profoundly arrogant, don’t you think? > [@](#): > > It is very possible that Love will have some hard things for those who follow Love, such as Jesus suffered and apparently many of the apostles and prophets of God. But also that they can be delivered, no suffer at all, such as Stephen, Elijah and Enoch all that were taken by the Lord directly into the heavens. Are you suggesting that people who burn to death are only pretending to shriek in pain? That God just makes their bodies look like they are in agony, like puppets? Why is your God such a weirdo? > [@](#): > > God wants to teach me His protective ability and to show that those who serve Him are above all earthly authority, it is something that I had to learn and am still learning. You learned that if you grovel hard enough God will give you a free pass on whatever dangerous actions you decide to do. That’s not a good lesson. > [@](#): > > As for the question of suffering, it is allowed for a time because one or two person(s) can’t suffer enough, it is impossible, the person could not take it. So the burden of Adam and Eve that we are all sharing, we all take part in that. There is mercy to the degree we experience suffering and it is only used for our learning. As we learn the way of love, one person at a time, Adam and Eve is being refined and transformed into God’s son and daughter, who after this refinement is Lord Jesus being born of all the peoples of the earth. That’s gibberish. Especially since you, evidently are given a free pass on the consequences of your actions. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/385 "2011-11-22T21:49:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But isn’t the point that he _ **could** _ have? That he was acknowledging that his will and the Father’s will weren’t the same with that “let not my will, but thy will, be done” bit? That, when he cries out that God has forsaken him, it’s because God can of course forsake him? I think part of the Father’s will is that the son trust the Father but have the opportunity to leave the Father. It is also the understanding on how we must all come to God, Jesus shows us the way, to trust the Father through our hardships. Also I believe shows that the choice once made for the Father’s will to be done over ours is irrevocable because we know the truth of God (though the Holy Spirit) and know that it is the only way and the devil is then defeated. It is also in this boldness that I believe allows me to make this very thread, there is really no choice as it is the Father’s will. Forsaking God has been described that Jesus had to believe that the Father forsook Him, though the Father never did. I don’t know if I buy that one. There is a place of separation from God, it is called outer darkness. Jesus had to suffer everything that man has suffered, so may of had to endure this. This is His oneness with man (enduring everything that man has), thus the bridge between all men and God. Was He one with the Father in the separation, was it a true separation? I don’t know. I do believe God does speak though music in ways that speak to the heart. Though this doesn’t answer your question directly you may be interested by the song Why by Nicole Nordeman, it is about the crucifixion and goes into a potential perspective of Jesus and the Father, which I feel helps explain certain aspects, though doesn’t answer your question. > [@](#): > > How do you interpret “No one comes to the Father, except through me”, then? You have to become a child of Love. You have to do what Jesus does. You can’t come to God without being His child. > [@](#): > > Can I say _“I of course refuse to go through Jesus, since I believe he was deluded or dishonest – possibly a devil-worshiper, possibly just a cult leader who helped folks experiment with drugs – but I hereby accept God the Father, yep, you betcha, no foolin’, does it look like I’'m kidding?”_ How exclusive is the “except through me” bit? I believe you have to come to the Father though a person, a man. In this there is no other way. For you that person very well be Jesus, but if you refuse, if you are that stubborn, then you may die, be born again in a place where you may know the Son of Love by some other name - though that person will be as Jesus as Jesus. We must recognizing divinity in mankind that is the way. It is a common theme of faith that we will repeat our errors till we learn and move on - So this it is exclusive. There is no other way then to become God’s child, to become Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/386 "2011-11-22T21:57:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This is exactly what you are saying. More important than every rape happening right now. More important than every act of incest, every nose being cut off, every firearm being discharged up a woman’s sexual organs, every shuddering sickness and infirmity. You are more important than all those things, because God likes you best. I’m just going to address this part, I was raped by demons from hell, endured unspeakable torment, constant fear and also the shear loneliness of a place called outer darkness. One time while talking to a homeless man, asking him if he would pray with me, he took it as if I would pray for him, which I did, then heard God say that he should be praying for me because he is in a much better place then I am. So please don’t think I have not suffered. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/387 "2011-11-22T22:07:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m just going to address this part, I was raped by demons from hell, endured unspeakable torment, constant fear and also the shear loneliness of a place called outer darkness. How large is demon penis? I’ve heard that it’s long, but not that thick Follow Up Question: Did they ejaculate inside you, or did they pull out, so as to compound the sin? > [@](#): > > One time while talking to a homeless man, asking him if he would pray with me, he took it as if I would pray for him, which I did, then heard God say that he should be praying for me because he is in a much better place then I am. > > So please don’t think I have not suffered. Maybe you should sell everything you own and give it to that homeless person. I bet Jesus would think that was cool. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/388 "2011-11-22T22:13:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m just going to address this part, I was raped by demons from hell, endured unspeakable torment, constant fear and also the shear loneliness of a place called outer darkness. > > One time while talking to a homeless man, asking him if he would pray with me, he took it as if I would pray for him, which I did, then heard God say that he should be praying for me because he is in a much better place then I am. > > So please don’t think I have not suffered. I think I understand where you are coming from-[here is a link that might help others understand.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=632336) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/389 "2011-11-22T22:14:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How large is demon penis? I’ve heard that it’s long, but not that thick > > Follow Up Question: Did they ejaculate inside you, or did they pull out, so as to compound the sin? > > Maybe you should sell everything you own and give it to that homeless person. I bet Jesus would think that was cool. I accept your apology:) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/390 "2011-11-22T22:28:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’ve had angels stop traffic for me on occasion. Maybe he’s a character in this [children’s book](http://www.amazon.com/Angels-Karate-Adventures-Bailey-School/dp/0590849026). (Kids suspect their karate teacher/crossing guard of being an angel.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/391 "2011-11-22T23:51:57Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Is it not better to cure the problem then the symptom? Of course it is. But in the mean time, this is one symptom that’s in your own control. Cut it out before you kill yourself or someone else. If I were “caught in a moment of weakness” that ended in someone’s death, I sure as HELL wouldn’t want people to let me off. That’s not “mercy”. That’s being selfish. Jesus didn’t say people shouldn’t take responsibility for their own actions, did he? What about “mercy” for those who are killed by people who show no care for the lives of others? Man up and have the balls to realize it’s not about you. If you KNOW you have a problem, and you refuse to get help for it, then it’s your own damned fault, and no, I don’t have an sympathy for you. Not if you’re endangering others. Remember “whatsoever you do to others, you do unto God”? Grow some balls. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/392 "2011-11-23T00:16:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Of course it is. But in the mean time, this is one symptom that’s in your own control. Cut it out before you kill yourself or someone else. > > If I were “caught in a moment of weakness” that ended in someone’s death, I sure as HELL wouldn’t want people to let me off. That’s not “mercy”. That’s being selfish. **Jesus didn’t say people shouldn’t take responsibility for their own actions, did he?** No, actually quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/393 "2011-11-23T00:57:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m just going to address this part, I was raped by demons from hell, endured unspeakable torment, constant fear and also the shear loneliness of a place called outer darkness. How do you reconcile this assertion with the fact that hell and demons do not exist? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/394 "2011-11-23T02:08:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > No, actually quite the opposite. I wish I had thought of this when I got in trouble as a kid. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > How do you reconcile this assertion with the fact that hell and demons do not exist? Oh, do NOT get him started on this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/395 "2011-11-23T03:57:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m just going to address this part, I was raped by demons from hell, endured unspeakable torment, constant fear and also the shear loneliness of a place called outer darkness. > > One time while talking to a homeless man, asking him if he would pray with me, he took it as if I would pray for him, which I did, then heard God say that he should be praying for me because he is in a much better place then I am. > > So please don’t think I have not suffered. Have you considered medication? ---
**Author:** ![FlyTy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FlyTy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyTy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/396 "2011-11-23T10:51:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Shit happens. Never in my life have I been so compelled to say, Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/397 "2011-11-23T11:09:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t want that child to grow up in a world so strict with rules they are afraid of living, guilty for just being human with the law is set up so that is it humanely impossible to follow it because all humans have weaknesses, that is a form of death too, and that reaches far to many people, far more then the drunk driving fatalities. A very gray society, a shade of hell. And make no mistake that is exactly what hell is, impossible to follow rules and strict punishment for any violation without any mercy. > > Yes I want a justice system based on mercy. I’m sorry - did you just imply that it would be better for a child to be run down by a drunk driver than for it to live in a society where we punish drunk drivers for running people down? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/398 "2011-11-23T15:56:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I wish I had thought of this when I got in trouble as a kid. You are still a kid of God, and yes it works the same, He is responsible. > [@](#): > > Oh, do NOT get him started on this, please. Not really interested in going over this either 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/399 "2011-11-23T15:59:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m sorry - did you just imply that it would be better for a child to be run down by a drunk driver than for it to live in a society where we punish drunk drivers for running people down? It is better to have a society of Love and mercy that allows freedom then to have a child live in a police state with rules that are so unfair that they can be stopped for expressing being human. No one should have to endure the second society - nor is it what God intended us to live in, though it is good training for people who chose to spend a few years in hell, which is why I suspect it’s allowed for a time. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/400 "2011-11-23T16:06:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Have you considered medication? Did you miss the post that I have seen 2 physiatrists and 5 social workers over the years? Only one recommended that medication may be useful, but then changed her mind that same week and suggested that I keep doing what I have been as she felt it was far better then anything she could do and she would only get in the way of what she saw as a good in my life to continue. So yes I have considered it, but experts in the field did not really like that and suggested against it. But thanks for asking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=21)