# Your explaination for this work of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223 "2011-11-17T14:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/121 "2011-11-18T14:12:30Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I am a Christian myself and I, in fact, do believe that the method in which God “acts” is through the sort of thing that **kanicbird** describes in the OP. The problem is, however, that these sorts of things are only really meaningful to those directly involved, just as with any other personal anecdote. To those who believe it, it is clearly an act of God, and to those who don’t, they will see mere coincidence, subconscious action, confirmation bias, or some other phenomenon or, even if they can’t reasonably explain it, will resolve that there must be a naturalistic explanation. The thing is, these sorts of circumstances are inevitably filtered through our own experiences and our own beliefs and so can’t possibly act as any sort of meaningful proof for or against either view. > > But here’s my question to you, **kanicbird**. If God has put these series of events before you, what do you feel is his purpose it so doing, not for someone else’s benefit, but specifically for you? By this, I mean, when we interpret these sorts of things as though there is no coincidence, then we have to consider other possibilities of how such things may be accomplished. If, for instance, God only wanted **TOWP** to read it that verse, we could probably come up with dozens of different ways he may have read it without your involvement. Thus, on these assumptions, there is as much a lesson for you to be learned, as for anyone else and, as such, there are lessons for everyone else involved too. Further, what you may believe the lessons may be for others may or may not be what they actually are. > > However, for those who do believe certain things are coincidence, they may not even search for any particular lesson and may not find it, or the lesson may be a from a series of events, of which that particular event is only one. Or, if we decide there is no lesson for some individual involved, then we must accept that sometimes events simply are coincidence. Either way, I ask the question above because I think that though we should act on things as we believe we should, we can only ever actually effect those lessons into ourselves. Kancbird says he isn’t Christian, but uses the Christian Bible as his religion. At least that is how it appears to me. So in a sense, God is telling him that Christianity is not (God’s) religion! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/122 "2011-11-18T14:12:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Did you ever hear of thoughts Of grandeur? This sounds like that to me. From my last post right above this, it would seem like you are trying to place me in that spot, yet I give that to Jesus. So though I do appreciate the offer, it is not for me, but Him. thanks 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/123 "2011-11-18T14:13:41Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Kancbird says he isn’t Christian, but uses the Christian Bible as his religion. At least that is how it appears to me. So in a sense, God is telling him that Christianity is not (God’s) religion! God doesn’t have a religion, but a relationship. I follow and serve Lord Jesus and that is how I would define myself. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/124 "2011-11-18T14:18:10Z")
Could God create an argument so circular even he couldn’t believe it? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/125 "2011-11-18T14:20:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Part of it came from a very interesting set of verses in one of Paul’s letters that I believe shows the split between the flesh of Paul and the Spirit of God at war with each other > Here in verse 12, where the Lord actually said I don’t stand with Paul on this, this is not Me. Likewise Verse 10 is the Lord with Paul saying it’s not Paul. > > So the Lord and Paul did not stand together on this. > > Paul also talks about the war inside him, saying/doing things he doesn’t want to do and the other way around. There was a large war inside Paul. When Paul speaks of being a prisoner of Lord Jesus, I believe that was when Jesus was able to confine the flesh of Paul, greatly limiting it’s ability. This ends with the death of Paul in Rome and the eternal life of Jesus inside Paul as I have taken Paul’s letters. > > It shows to what length God will go to save someone, and how we must share each others burdens. Paul I believe was so steeped in Jewish OT law that even today, what we considered Christianity is us bearing some of Paul’s burden 2000 years later. Paul also said,“It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me”. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/126 "2011-11-18T14:22:45Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Could God create an argument so circular even he couldn’t believe it? I believe your beliefs are a example of this. I also believe He will show you that in His time. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/127 "2011-11-18T14:28:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name? It is in a human book, and in the 300’s the Bishops of the church were called to gather by Constantine to decide what books were inspired and what were not, then they disgarded any that they didn’t want in their scriptures, and you are the only person who thinks humans didn’t write all that is written, even when Jesus was said to have written in the sand, he was said to be human.Then ask your God why Jesus only wrote in sand and not a book himself. You must prove that God wrote or said anything and since you can’t it seems you like to pass the buck! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/128 "2011-11-18T14:30:35Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Paul also said,“It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me”. Galatians I believe historically came after the explicitly stated conflict between God and Paul in 1 Cor 7:12 So it is possible that Paul no longer lives between those 2 times, but if Paul died then why in Philemon (far later) did Paul identify himself as a prisoner of Christ Jesus? Jesus did not achieve glory after His death, but after His Resurrection. So even if Paul died does not mean that’s the end of that flesh, but the final refinement. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/129 "2011-11-18T14:32:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because God does not want us to depend on facts, but the relationship between God and man. > > The OT system is based on rules and regulations, the Law etc. But we were meant and designed not to follow the Law, but to try new things without bounds, to learn and explore, to ever experience new and wonderful things. To God we are but infants learning how to crawl. What is impossible for us now will not forever be, but hard laws and what we think are facts limit us hinder our growth and prevent us from seeing outside the box we have crawled into. It comes from all things are possible with God, though He has to take us there when we are ready. > > The way was made clear by Jesus. That is your own personal belief and religion, it has no appeal for me. It doesn’t make sense, and thinking you are a chosen person of God also sounds more like egotism and that could sound like Satan has a hold of you and tries to get you to lead people away from the truth. Beware of false prophets!! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/130 "2011-11-18T14:33:16Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is in a human book, and in the 300’s the Bishops of the church were called to gather by Constantine to decide what books were inspired and what were not, then they disgarded any that they didn’t want in their scriptures, and you are the only person who thinks humans didn’t write all that is written, even when Jesus was said to have written in the sand, he was said to be human.Then ask your God why Jesus only wrote in sand and not a book himself. You must prove that God wrote or said anything and since you can’t it seems you like to pass the buck! It is your burden to prove your assertions or state outright the assumptions you are using, not mine. You statement stands unsupported. And in this post you make another unsupported assertion. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/131 "2011-11-18T14:38:41Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That is your own personal belief and religion, it has no appeal for me. It doesn’t make sense, and thinking you are a chosen person of God also sounds more like egotism and that could sound like Satan has a hold of you and tries to get you to lead people away from the truth. Beware of false prophets!! This is what they accused Jesus of. I have often found people that accuse are normally guilt of that very thing they accuse others of. If it has no appeal for you why do you post as you do. You obviously put lots of energy into it, so there is some appeal. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/132 "2011-11-18T15:01:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I have often found people that accuse are normally guilt of that very thing they accuse others of. This explains why so many of the judiciary are serial killers. **kanicbird** you solicited opinions about this “work of God”. Here’s mine: a minor coincidence occurred and you think it’s not only significant but supernatural. This is because you view the world through the lens of obsessive scrutiny of a single, ultimately flawed work, with the erroneous impression that it is the ultimate truth rather than a haphazard collection of human stories and fables. When you post you sound like religious zealots of any denomination you may care choose, and you don’t convince me that you are any more correct than would a Hindu, Muslim, Zoroastrian or Jew who proselytizes in the way you do. It remains a minor coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/133 "2011-11-18T15:20:16Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > This explains why so many of the judiciary are serial killers. Ever hear of the death penalty, or perhaps a lesser form of taking someone’s life, a sentence of life behind bars, or the life taking shorter sentences? Are you aware that the US has one of the greatest %'age of imprisoned members of the population? I believe Russia had the greatest %, then the US surpasses it, though that was quite a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/134 "2011-11-18T15:20:41Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I think \*\*Jack Batty \*\*wasn’t correct to characterise the fallacy he describes as, strictly, a “no true scotsman”. Though the parallels between that fallacy and the Scotsman fallacy are pretty obvious. > > In a no true scotsman one redefines the proposition to suit the evidence. In the fallacy \*\*Jack \*\*sets out, one redefines the evidence to suit the proposition. > > I think it goes like this: > > The proposition is that there is a a god which is good and would do good things. > > The evidence is that events happen. These events fall into two categories: > > 1/ Good events: when these events happen I attribute it to this god (because he is good) and use them to imply this god’s existence; > > 2/ Bad events: when these events happen I attribute it to something other than this god (because he is good) so they have no implications regarding this god’s existence. > > Between 1/ and 2/ one is redefining the implications of the evidence based solely on whether it suits the proposition. This would make more sense if you showed that there aren’t christians who attribute bad things to Yah. For people who read carefully, Yah takes credit for calamities and other evils. Some individuals may do this, but its not present in this thread. I have never attributed all good to Yah and dismissed all evil as from some other source. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/135 "2011-11-18T15:25:54Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn’t give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on, and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)! I do not see where you get the presumption that if Yah worked through kanicbird for one person, that Yah must work through kanicbird to reach all persons. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/136 "2011-11-18T15:34:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What basis do you claim that it was written by humans? Who wrote it? What was his or her name? I have never seen a serious claim that Yah wrote the scripture with his own hands made by theologians. The claim is that Yah inspired it. Saying “supposedly God wrote the Bible,” is a strawman that the deriders of religion build to mock the claims adherents. Yeah there are some whackos who insist that men didn’t write the bible and Yah was dictating every last word, but that’s not what “inspire” means. To illustrate: I am a songwriter. Occasionally someone inspires me to write a song. This means I got the spark of an idea from them. But did this person tell me every last word to write? No, they did not dictate the words of the song even though they gave me the idea. In all of the bible there is one thing it claims Yah wrote–the ten commandments, with His finger, in stone. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/137 "2011-11-18T15:40:27Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I have never seen a serious claim that Yah wrote the scripture with his own hands made by theologians. The claim is that Yah inspired it. > > Saying “supposedly God wrote the Bible,” is a strawman that the deriders of religion build to mock the claims adherents. > > Yeah there are some whackos who insist that men didn’t write the bible and Yah was dictating every last word, but that’s not what “inspire” means. > > To illustrate: I am a songwriter. Occasionally someone inspires me to write a song. This means I got the spark of an idea from them. But did this person tell me every last word to write? No, they did not dictate the words of the song even though they gave me the idea. I think this thread demonstrates how God uses man, at least a theory of how that could happen. So it is God who is doing the communication through man, man is just copying and learning from the inspiration. This is how I take the scripture writings, actually every writing that has ever existed as all creation is from God, though God uses man for some of creation. By my post is to challenge the unsupported assertions of Monavis that every writing was made by man (this is more a direct quote from another thread). I don’t believe he can prove it without assumptions such as using Occam’s razor, nor do I believe it to be accurate. If **Monavis** makes such assumptions he should state them. > [@](#): > > In all of the bible there is one thing it claims Yah wrote–the ten commandments, with His finger, in stone. The handwriting on the wall in the book of Daniel did not seem to be written by humans. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/138 "2011-11-18T15:42:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Ever hear of the death penalty, or perhaps a lesser form of taking someone’s life, a sentence of life behind bars, or the life taking shorter sentences? Are you aware that the US has one of the greatest %'age of imprisoned members of the population? I believe Russia had the greatest %, then the US surpasses it, though that was quite a while ago. 1. You’re equating putting people in jail with serial killing? Seriously? 2. Why are you telling me about the death penalty in the US? The death penalty is, for example, outlawed in heathen Europe. Weak. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/139 "2011-11-18T15:46:36Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > What makes even less sense to me, is why God is telling Kbird,such mundane things for the benifit of one person and doesn’t give him the answer to get all people to see things the same way, so they can have facts to rely on, and not just have them believe. Facts do more than beliefs. Perhaps Kbird should have God tell the world how they can get along, without killing each other. And help the terrorists see that what they are doing is also self distructive! And why he allows an evil being to exist, but punishes some people who use the mind he is said to have given them, and can only use Kanicbird,(and very few can think like him)! I must have missed kanicbird’s claim that it can only happen through him. I am entirely willing to believe that Yah can and does work through people. But I think you might have missed kanicbird’s message of love. He’s posted about it several times. This is how the world can get along–“Love your neighbor as yourself.” The world is too busy criticizing one another to take it seriously, One reason is because some people abuse this message for political gain. For instance, do I believe that Rick Perry loves me? Do I believe that he will treat me as he desires to be treated? It appears more likely that he is boasting of his christianity for his own purposes, namely, success in politics. yes, we could all get along if we loved one another. why do you reject the message kanicbird has and then criticize him for not having a message the whole world can use? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223/140 "2011-11-18T15:48:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I think this thread demonstrates how God uses man, at least a theory of how that could happen. So it is God who is doing the communication through man, man is just copying and learning from the inspiration. This is how I take the scripture writings, actually every writing that has ever existed as all creation is from God, though God uses man for some of creation. > > By my post is to challenge the unsupported assertions of Monavis that every writing was made by man (this is more a direct quote from another thread). I don’t believe he can prove it without assumptions such as using Occam’s razor, nor do I believe it to be accurate. If **Monavis** makes such assumptions he should state them. > > The handwriting on the wall in the book of Daniel did not seem to be written by humans. Yes I stand corrected, the handwriting on the wall is another example of something Yah directly wrote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-explaination-for-this-work-of-god/603223.md?page=8)