Love Happy, followed by The Story of Mankind
What?
Oh, OK. I really do prefer A Night at the Opera to the others. I can’t stand a day at the Races (although it’s got some great lines in it), so my second choice is The Cocoanuts.
I’ll give you a tutsi frusti…
Races has some excellent bits, when the godawful love story, song or, Horse race isn’t involved. I otherwords there is a great 15 minutes in that film.
But it has the Ice cream cart bit with Groucho and Chico. Groucho answering the phone call checking on his credentials.
Sure, this is all hindsight. And the Marxes worshiped Thalberg. Why not? As you say, he was nicer to them than anyone had ever been. He brought in a successful director, Sam Wood. When the first script by Kalmer and Ruby didn’t pan out, he brought in Hollywood-hating George S. Kaufman and his ridiculous salary demands. He sent the team out to test the comic scenes in front of live audience to refine the jokes and the timing. And they always blamed the fact that he died during the shooting of Day for their subsequent decline.
Well, that’s true, but in all the wrong ways. Most importantly, but invisibly, that left them in the hands of studio boss Louie Mayer, who hated the Marxes. Out went the good writers, the comic tours, the talented directors, the lavish scenery, everything that conspired to make Night and Day box office.
And that also meant they were stuck with Thalberg’s Theories of Comedy. What did he know about Comedy? Essentially nothing. You can search hard through his films before you find one to laugh at, for the right reasons. (Bombshell, I guess. Eve could say more.) His output was mostly big, lavish, historic spectacles by then. But he knew What Women Wanted. They wanted to feel sympathy for the leads.
Sympathy! For the Marx Brothers! What is the point of the Marx Brothers if they are not unstoppable forces of elemental nature? (Ans. None.) They are cartoon characters. Do you stop Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck halfway through their antics to make us feel sorry for them? Even at the time this was manifestly a bad idea, a wrenching change in characters perfected over 20 years.
And it makes every possible difference in the world whether Groucho is a cheap hustler pretending to be president or living in a world in which a cheap hustler like him actually is the president. Every single joke that emerges from those two premises vary; every single reaction to the character varies; every single plot development varies. Maybe you have to be a writer to see that.
And, final point, I promise, it’s actually harder to make such a character funny. Cheap hustlers are a staple in movies. You know what they’re going to say and do. Unlike the old Groucho, who would always choose the third of two possible rejoinders. The old Groucho was in control of situations; the new Groucho reeks of desperation. The former is always funny; the latter isn’t. Same with his brothers, BTW. (Mae West was always in control in her movies, which is what made them work. W. C. Fields did play put upon, but always got his revenge, and his later movies moved toward him in control rather than away from it. There is no better example than the classic comeback in My Little Chickadee: "Is this an honest game? “Not the way I play it.”)
It all falls apart even before Thalberg dies, really. The script for Day went through 17 versions from almost as many writing teams, and Thalberg’s one rationale for any of them seems to have been “duplicate Night as closely as possible.” Again, that’s the one thing you never do with the Marxes. Everything they do has to seem like it’s the first time it’s ever been done (even if it’s an old vaudeville routine like those in Duck Soup). So you get the ice cream scene, a bad imitation of the contract scene. The phone call scene, a bad imitation of the claustrophobic frenzy of the stateroom scene. The wallpaper scene, a bad imitation of the moving the furniture scene. And the horseracing scene. To paraphrase Joe Adamson, can you imagine the Marx Brothers at a race track? Of course you can. So why put them there?
Even at the time, these were obvious mistakes. Writers could no longer figure out how to write for these new characters. They didn’t belong in a realistic world. They couldn’t rise above it as cartoons so easily can.
And what would have happened if they never went with Thalberg? Once you depart reality, everything’s in play and the chance that they wouldn’t have worked again is a real one. But if what really happened is that they wound up at the biggest and best studio with increased pay and better production, the second best alternative to that probably wouldn’t have been a disaster. Remember they were just two movies away from the cover of Time magazine. Even in the Hollywood of the era, one bad-grosser didn’t destroy careers. If Duck Soup was obviously wrong for the time, that didn’t mean that their comedy was - Night and Day prove that. Just change the subject matter. It would even at the time seem to have been a wiser move than to change the Marxes.
So why did they do it? Because like any good vaudevillian, they looked to the next gig and next guaranteed paycheck. They already had had long careers - Chico was 47, Harpo 46 in 1934, ancient for physical comedians - and the long term was far less important than the short term, especially with Chico’s gambling problem. They knew that their later films stunk; they kept trying to retire but Chico always needed money.
The Marx Brothers, Fields, West, even Chaplin and Keaton, honed their characters to perfection. They could play outside their characters (Fields in Copperfield, e.g.), but they couldn’t be comic geniuses outside them. And every attempt to change the character ended in dismal, embarrassing failure. Who did this? Meddling studio executives. Thalberg first and foremost.
He had a responsibility to the studio to make money, and all that. I know the arguments. In the long run, his failures cost the studio money. A true creative genius would have found a way to use the characters to best advantage, an annuity that would keep paying off. But Thalberg knew nothing about comedy, except for his theories. And the Marxes knew they was no hope for a long-term relationship with him. He was a 36-year-old predicted to die at 30.
Of course they did what they did. And of course Thalberg did what he did. But they should have known better. Even at the time they should have known better.
That’ll teach you to give me an opportunity to pontificate! 
I just got through with The Cocoanuts. There were a couple of hilarious parts - “why a duck,” Groucho’s line “I might [still love you if you were poor], but I’d keep my mouth shut,” and I couldn’t believe they started singing about the shirt - and some really dead parts, but it was better than I remembered.
Tough choice, but I have to go with Horse Feathers , with Duck Soup a very close second.
And Harpo’s face during the speeches! And Groucho convincing the staff they don’t really want to be paid! And definitely, why a duck.
<Sigh> That was a reply to Marley23, and it claimed to have a quote box for his comments. Someday, I’ll learn to work all the fancy features here.
Hear, hear! I think the very worse scene in any Marx Bros. movie is when Groucho falls down the stairs in Go West. Can you imagine Bugs falling down the stairs? About the worst thing that happened to him in the Paramount movies is being locked in a bathroom.
There were very minor love subplots in the movies based on the plays, and none at all in the best three. (I’m not counting them all jumping on Thelma Todd 
) The love plots in Night and Day just removed focus from the Marxes. That’s one of the things that destroys the flow of those movies. Groucho looking on at the lovebirds is just wrong. One critic I read said that the real Groucho would rather sell Kitty Carlisle into white slavery.
That and the music. One of the great things about Duck Soup is how all the songs contribute to both the plot and the comedy. A show stopper for their comedy is not a plus.
The success of Night and Day relative to Duck Soup should disprove any golden age of good audience taste fantasies.
It is with considerable trepidation that I reopen this thread with the knowing intent of committing heresy. Yep, I’m here to admit that last night I watched Duck Soup and failed to find it funny.
Started off with a tedious several minute intro setting the scene, MD refusing to loan Feedonia $20 million unless they name RTF their leader.
Then several minutes at a reception before RTF appears.
May have been only 5-7 minutes, but that is a long time to go without a joke in a flick that is only 70 minutes long.
Are the funny costumes and the use of the trumpets supposed to be funny in theirselves?
When Groucho appears he does issue some of his finest lines, primarily as insults to MD. But, I hate to say that a few classic bon mots does not suffice for a satisfying movie-watching experience.
Let’s see - recurring bit with the motorcycle sidecar. Mildly amusing.
Scenes with the advisors, “Take up the tax”, “Dollars/Taxes” - yeah, a couple more good lines, but interspersed with some long periods of really bad acting.
The street vendor scenes - why is it so hilarious that Harpo keeps grabbing peoples’ legs? And ends up putting the guy’s hat on the flame? Or splashes around in his lemonade? Didn’t do the trick for me.
The mirror scene - I dunno. Mildly clever, but went on for too long.
Ah - Harpo keeps cutting things with his scissors. And carries a blowtorch. Friggin hysterical! (Not!)
The “Going to War” production scene seemed amateurishly acted and filmed.
And other than a clever line or 2, where was the humor in the battle scene?
The pacing of several scenes appeared awkward.
Take Harpo doing Paul Revere.
He’s riding on a horse blowing the trumpet.
He sees a woman undressing and simply walks into her apt.
Apparently she doesn’t mind, so he goes back downstairs to ride his horse in.
Which is apparently so they can set up a slowly paced shot showing the horseshoes under the bed, and then the horse in the bed.
Then the vendor comes home, and tho his wife tells him to go to war, he simply says “I’m going to take a bath.”
He sits in the tub, and you hear a honk.
Vendor looks surprised.
Repeat several more times, and then Harpo arises from the water.
Which causes the much-harrassed street vendor to demonstrate his frustration by mussing his hair.
I just re-read what I wrote, and it reads just as tediously as it was to watch.
I can imagine a student of film appreciating some original or creative aspects of the Marx Bros.’ efforts. But much as it pains me to say this, as a simple enjoyable film watching experience, I would not recommend this to anyone.
Well, I have only seen 3 Marx Brothers films so far, but to give them an order, I would say
- Monkey Business
- A Day at the Races
- Horse Feathers (I don’t know why, but that movie just rubbed me the wrong way, it will probably be at the end of my list always.)
Oh, come on–I was even laughing reading your recap of the scene!
Don’t get me wrong.
I WANT to be a Marx Bros fan, and have considered myself such for a good part of my 45 years. Which is why it came as such a shock for me to watch what many consider the epitome of their product, and simply find it not funny.
Much of it seemed hurriedly and sloppily put together. The few clever lines were separated by vast stretches of unfunny business. And many scenes had clever seeming concepts, but the disjointed and poorly paced presentation removed most of the potential humor from the performance.
I fear that in many if not most cases comedy does not age well. I recall being disappointed rewatching Monty Python episodes. The bits I remembered fondly were interspersed among many more unmemorable - and unlaughable - bits.
For me at least, the memory of the Marx Bros was far more enjoyable than the actual viewing proved to be. Is it possibly similar to nostalgia for the “good old days”, where you fondly remember isolated high points while retaining little memory for the overall context?
I think you have a point. I’ve been watching the first season of the Muppet Show. I was so looking forward to it because I remembered how clever and original it was. But in reality the episodes are painfully unfunny.