# Your favorite unexpected etymology **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641 "2013-06-22T17:12:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/181 "2013-09-02T06:21:14Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I remember Tony Randall, as a guest on a late night talk show, decades ago, pointing out that the origin of “emergency” is childbirth: the emergence of a baby. I think that was on Johnny Carson, where Robert Goulet repeated the old chestnut about “sirloin” steak having been knighted by some English monarch because it tasted sooooooo good. Of course, it comes from the French _sur la longe_, meaning “above the loin,” which is where the cut comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/182 "2013-09-04T21:33:40Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I posted from my recollection of what Randall said, and I’ll admit that I didn’t look it up anywhere to verify it, but I don’t think your cites are adequate to completely dismiss the claim. Wait, my cites of actual etymology in dictionaries is insufficient to dispute your half-remembered quote from an actor on some TV talk show? :smack: How about I put it a different way: you gotta cite for that, because everything I can find makes no mention of childbirth. > [@](#): > > Um, no. That site provides a _definition_, and says the word derived from _emerge_ in the 1630s. It says nothing about what was emerging that led 17th century speakers to coin the word _emergency_. (Actually, you appear to have accidentally copied the definition from your second cite, who got it from [etymology.com](http://etymology.com). [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), in your first link, offers a slightly different definition: “a sudden, urgent, usually unexpected occurrence or occasion requiring immediate action.”) Actually, I pulled the definition from the first link, but the third entry, which is the [etymology.com](http://etymology.com) definition that also happens to be cited in the second link. However, since you do not find that as sufficient, I looked up “[emerge](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/emerge)”. > [@](#): > > Word Origin & History > emerge > 1560s, from [M.Fr](http://M.Fr). emerger, from L. emergere “rise out or up,” from ex- “out” + mergere “to dip, sink” (see [merge](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/merge)). The notion is of rising from a liquid by virtue of buoyancy. > > Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper Underlining added. No mention of childbirth. Now that’s the root word “emerge”, not the derived word “emergency”, but I’m afraid I’m going to need something more substantial than “Tony Randall said” to justify the idea that someone decided they needed a word to describe childbirth as an urgent medical situation, and that’s the first _emergency_, as opposed to, say, getting a limb amputated, or getting skewered by a sword, or getting shot by a musket (or arquebus). Or getting hit in the head, or getting run over by a wagon, or kicked by a horse, or pretty much any other kind of medical situation that could be treated by immediate attention. Or, to boil it all down to one word, **cite**? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/183 "2013-09-05T02:01:40Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Wait, my cites of actual etymology in dictionaries is insufficient to dispute your half-remembered quote from an actor on some TV talk show? :smack: First of all, I said > [@me](#): > > I’ll admit that I didn’t look it up anywhere to verify it, and > [@](#): > > I’m not saying that the childbirth connection to emergency might not be fanciful or flat out wrong But you pulled up some \*\*\*definitions \*\*\*of the word, not _ **etymologies** _, and claimed that the definitions cast doubt on the childbirth story. I was merely saying that what you presented didn’t offer a more likely explanation for the origin of “emergency” than mine. > [@Irishman](#): > > I’m afraid I’m going to need something more substantial than “Tony Randall said” to justify the idea that someone decided they needed a word to describe childbirth as an urgent medical situation, and that’s the first _emergency_, as opposed to, say, getting a limb amputated, or getting skewered by a sword, or getting shot by a musket (or arquebus). Or getting hit in the head, or getting run over by a wagon, or kicked by a horse, or pretty much any other kind of medical situation that could be treated by immediate attention. In case your parents didn’t explain this to you, when a child is born, it _emerges_ from its mother’s body. Whereas nothing is emerging in the other examples you’ve given, except perhaps blood or guts. Does it not seem conceivable to you that the sense of urgency surrounding the emergence of a baby (which not so long ago posed a serious threat to the lives of both mother and child) could be the source of the word “emergency”? It did to me. Now it may be that blood emerging from a wound is the origin of “emergency.” A few [etymology](http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?110074-Etymology-of-the-word-quot-emergency-quot) [sites](http://wordsallaround.blogspot.com/2012/04/emergence-and-emergency.html) I’ve found suggest that that may be the case. In an admittedly cursory search, I haven’t found anything definitive about blood, guts, or children being the origin. But I \*like \*the idea of it being childbirth. And that’s all I’ve ever claimed. If that’s not good enough for you, **Irishman** , please feel free to depart the field victoriously. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/184 "2013-09-05T06:01:10Z")
Not to disabuse you of your romantic notion that “emergency” derives from childbirth, but it looks pretty tenuous. ISTR “emerge” being used on occasion, not often but every now and then, to mean “become apparent”, as in, “… _it emerged that_ so and so _had done_ thus and such …”. Whence one can easily draw the connection from facts to events, because facts are frequently based on events. If events can be seen as emerging from the bland backdrop of ordinary life, it is but a short step to “emergency” (Latin _emergens_ being the present participle, “emerging”) being the description of major, significant events, happening or recently having happened, that need to be addressed now. To _me_, that seems more likely than a crowning (or breeching). Perhaps the thing to do would be to ask [Grant and Martha](http://www.waywordradio.org) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/185 "2013-09-06T03:42:52Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > According to Chef Michael Smith, the word “restaurant” comes from establishments serving “restorative meals” that opened in Paris after the French Revolution. Which is why the owner is a restaurateur (a restorer) and not a restauranteur. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/186 "2013-09-09T19:59:40Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > But you pulled up some \*\*\*definitions \*\*\*of the word, not _ **etymologies** _, and claimed that the definitions cast doubt on the childbirth story. I was merely saying that what you presented didn’t offer a more likely explanation for the origin of “emergency” than mine. > > In case your parents didn’t explain this to you, when a child is born, it _emerges_ from its mother’s body. Whereas nothing is emerging in the other examples you’ve given, except perhaps blood or guts. Wow, congratulations on not getting the point in the most obnoxious way ever. You posted a spurilous proposed origin of the word based upon some story you heard from an actor on a talk show and your personal appreciation of that story. I merely stated that it was unlikely and that I could not find any evidence to support that notion. From there, you berate me for being unable to _disprove_ your baseless speculation. There’s this thing called “burden of proof” - look it up. > [@](#): > > Now it may be that blood emerging from a wound is the origin of “emergency.” A few [etymology](http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?110074-Etymology-of-the-word-quot-emergency-quot) [sites](http://wordsallaround.blogspot.com/2012/04/emergence-and-emergency.html) I’ve found suggest that that may be the case. In an admittedly cursory search, I haven’t found anything definitive about blood, guts, or children being the origin. I find it amusing that your first source is one I already cited, and your second source primarily recounts the first source, then adds a reference to The Free Online Dictionary that provides a description not substantially different from the one I provided that comes from the [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=emergency). You are correct, there is nothing substantial in any source I have found that describes what was “emergent” that made it mean “unforeseen occurrence” or “requiring immediate attention”. Therefore, there is nothing to support your claim it comes from childbirth, as opposed to any possible other source of “unforeseen occurrences requiring immediate attention”. I never claimed to provide the answer, I merely demonstrated I could not find any support for your claim. So feel free to enjoy your story because it sounds good to you, but don’t go around claiming it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/187 "2013-09-09T23:10:57Z")
My favorite: “idiot”= ἰδιώτης, person who does not hold public office. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/188 "2013-09-10T10:56:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > “Bird.” No one knows the origin; there are no cognates in other languages… Yes, the source is unclear, but the online etymology dictionary does mention a possible source of this slang term: > [@](#): > > burd (n.) poetic word for “woman, lady” in old ballads; later “young lady, maiden;” c.1200, perhaps from Old English byrde “wealthy, well-born.” Or a metathesis of bryd “bride.” The masculine equivalent was berne. > bird (n.2) > “maiden, young girl,” c.1300, confused with burd (q.v.), but felt by later writers as a figurative use of bird (n.1). Modern slang meaning “young woman” is from 1915, and probably arose independently of the older word. (No smiley-face. This is a test to see if Dopers can detect tongue-in-cheek amusements.) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/189 "2013-09-10T13:15:25Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I don’t think so. It’s a New World animal that the ancient Romans could not have ever seen. It comes from Spanish _jabalí_, from Arabic _jabali_, meaning ‘of the mountains’ (_jabal_ means ‘mountain’), i.e. ‘wild swine’. One of the many Arabic words in Spanish. Whereas \*javelin \*is from the French diminutive of the Old French word _javelot_, which came from ancient Celtic, cognate to Irish _gabhal_ ‘fork, forked branch’. Pigs are a new world animal? What’s up with all the mentions of wild boars in medieval literature then? Wild boars are pigs and are native to Europe. Romans would definitely have seen them. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/190 "2013-09-10T13:56:42Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Pigs are a new world animal? What’s up with all the mentions of wild boars in medieval literature then? Wild boars are pigs and are native to Europe. Romans would definitely have seen them. No, the jabali is a new-world animal, often called a “wild boar” in English due to its resemblance to the old world animal of that name. Rather like European and Anerican Robins. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/191 "2013-09-10T14:23:50Z")
“Gymnasium” and its related forms come from the Greek word “γυμνός”, meaning “naked”. Because the Greeks exercised naked. I still internally giggle like a 12-year-old whenever I go to the gym. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/192 "2013-09-10T15:05:58Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > When I first heard the song A Dios Le Pido, I mentioned that I misheard it as “adios libido” at which point a native speaker pointed out to me that adios is, actually, a contraction of “a Dios”. Goodbye is literally “(go) with God”. > [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > “Goodbye” in English started out as “God be with you”, which became “goodbye” after a series of contractions and then confusion with expressions like “good morning” etc. The French word “adieu” is similar (“Dieu” being “God” in French). > [@fachverwirrt](#): > > “Gymnasium” and its related forms come from the Greek word “γυμνός”, meaning “naked”. Because the Greeks exercised naked. > > I still internally giggle like a 12-year-old whenever I go to the gym. Possibly even funnier for real 12-year-olds in Germany who may go to a _gymnasium_ (a selective secondary school) every day. I believe the word comes from the idea of “training” related to gyms. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/193 "2013-09-10T16:59:51Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Which is why the owner is a restaurateur (a restorer) and not a restauranteur. **[Voice of Johnny Carson]:** I did _not_ know that! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/194 "2013-09-10T19:50:53Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > No, the jabali is a new-world animal, often called a “wild boar” in English due to its resemblance to the old world animal of that name. Rather like European and Anerican Robins. Got a cite for that? My google of “jabali” turns up a wikipedia page in Spanish that in translation is for “wild boar”. I can’t find a description of “jabali” that is not of the same species, Sus scrofa. Unless you want _Warren_ Jabali. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/195 "2013-09-11T16:03:17Z")
Try [peccary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peccary)? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/196 "2013-09-11T16:21:48Z")
Ah, thanks. I now see the original link that spawned the comments. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/197 "2013-09-11T20:57:33Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Hamlet: Or did you think I meant country matters? > Ophelia: I think nothing, my lord. > Hamlet: That’s a fair thought, to lie between maid’s legs. Also notable in the title of one of his more popular comedies, [_A Lot of Nonsense About a Vagina_](http://www.impawards.com/1993/posters/much_ado_about_nothing.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/198 "2013-09-12T09:20:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also notable in the title of one of his more popular comedies, [_A Lot of Nonsense About a Vagina_](http://www.impawards.com/1993/posters/much_ado_about_nothing.jpg). “It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying a vagina.” ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/199 "2013-09-12T16:01:59Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Not quite right here: > > A butt was just another name for a barrel (The poet laureate in England traditionally receives a “butt of sack” — about 600 bottles’ worth of sherry, annually) > > A scuttle was a hatch, probably from the Old French _escoutille_, meaning a hatchway. > > Therefore a scuttlebut was a barrel with a hatch, the top or lid, open for scooping a drink from. They would not have damaged the barrel by punching a hole. Ah, that’s interesting. I stand partially corrected. My further research has confirmed that butt was an old word for the whole barrel or cask, not just the bottom of it. However, most sources are clear that the scuttlebutt, or scuttled butt, was called that because it had a hole cut or drilled into it. The hole is usually described as being in the top, but occasionally in the side. I haven’t been able to find a picture of one though. > [@Melbourne](#): > > Ah, you mean a Furphy. From the portable water tanks used by Australian troops in WWI That’s a new one for me! The thing I like about both scuttlebutt, and now furphy, is the consistency it shows in human behavior over the centuries. If you drink water with coworkers, then you naturally trade gossip with them. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641/200 "2013-09-12T16:09:33Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > “It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying a vagina.” “Vagina will come of vagina.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-unexpected-etymology/661641.md?page=11)