# Your favorite version of the USS Enterprise **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814 "2019-05-31T09:00:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/81 "2019-06-03T19:47:02Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Yeah—just like with the Robinsons. 😉 Swiss family or Space family? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/82 "2019-06-04T14:47:01Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Civilians on the base were not subject to military authority. A member of the Navy _might_ be somehow involved in the table of organization for the civilian workforce (there was a relatively unique inter-relationship of military and civilian workforces that to this day remains the backbone of how things get done there), but you didn’t take “orders” from the Navy personnel. > > To me, this is an example of what the _Enterprise-D_ is. She’s just China Lake in a mobile, space-faring form. She’s got personnel from Starfleet on board, but she also has just plain civvies. And I’m okay with that, because the UFP isn’t engaged in a war, and the _Enterprise-D_ isn’t a warship. That’s something they never really explored; were the civilians strictly Starfleet dependents, or were there (as I would imagine) civilian scientists and academics on board to study aliens and ruins and celestial oddities? (I know Keiko O’Brien was a botanist, but they didn’t really explore that on TNG) They never went into that… but it would have been interesting for them to explore how Picard would have had to deal with Dr. Dingus Dumbass the alien archaeologist who was prone to not doing what Picard wanted, and exploring Picard’s authority in that regard. Like say… Dr. Dumbass was performing an experiment or something, and the Romulans show up, but he doesn’t want to leave his lab and go to the Red Alert station. Or for that matter, are the civilians trained/have jobs in damage control/firefighting/etc… for when shit goes down? What about dating? Would Riker have been allowed to date the civilian staff? It struck me that the writers liked the idea of having families on board, but didn’t really want to go into it very deeply, beyond having Keiko and Molly be aboard the Enterprise. DS9 got into it deeper, but that was easier I suspect, since it was a commercially-oriented space station. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/83 "2019-06-04T14:50:29Z")
Can anyone hazard a guess on the living square footage of one of these babies? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/84 "2019-06-04T14:52:30Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Can anyone hazard a guess on the living square footage of one of these babies? Here’s a guess – > [@](#): > > [Quarters | Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki | Fandom](https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Quarters) > > When the Galaxy class was launched in the 2350s the size of the shipboard quarters had been increased. Each crewmember had been given 110 square meters of living space. This would include a bedroom, living and working area and a small bathrooms. Since Starfleet allowed families on vessels, family quarters could be requested with individual living quarters combined into one. All quarters contained Food synthesizers, sonic showers, standard showers, null-grav sleeping chambers, personal holographic viewers and provisions for pets. If a crewmember was stationed on a Galaxy class for more than six months, then they could reconfigure their quarters. The crew quarters were found on decks 9, 11, 33 and 35. Guest quarters were found on decks 5 and 6. That’s more than 1,000 square feet per person? More than what I have in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/85 "2019-06-04T15:30:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And to add one point - if the Cold War suddenly got hot, and the Russkies decided to nuke China Lake, or Beale, Luke, Eglin, or Offut, would the decision to have families on bases be retroactively judged to have been wrong? Because one could say they were in danger the whole time they were living there. Heck, being anywhere in Omaha was probably dangerous in the same way. Early ICBMs weren’t all that accurate. Yet, somehow, families lived on base all these years. While I appreciate the fact that in the event of a nuclear war, you guys would have died a few hours ahead of everybody else, we’re not talking about the same scale here. The Enterprise faced destruction roughly every other episode, which means that on an average (taking into account 24 episodes per year), the lives of everyone on board were placed in grave danger once per _month_. Those are wartime odds. And it it wasn’t like a base, where danger came to them - by the very fact that they were constantly exploring new planets and phenomena, the Enterprise actively sought out dangerous situations. My point is, for a so-called non-military organization, being on board a Starfleet ship was \*incredibly \*dangerous. Firefighters have safer jobs. If firefighters went to put out fires with their children strapped to their chests in infant carriers, they’d be placing them at less of a risk than the families aboard the Enterprise placed their own children every day. Sure, the Enterprise had a talented crew. Did every Starfleet ship? Where they all as good as Picard, Riker, Data et al? And even if they were, the Enterprise survived by sheer luck more than once. At some point, their luck was bound to end. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/86 "2019-06-04T15:48:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > While I appreciate the fact that in the event of a nuclear war, you guys would have died a few hours ahead of everybody else, we’re not talking about the same scale here. The Enterprise faced destruction roughly every other episode, which means that on an average (taking into account 24 episodes per year), This is silly. TV shows are not fake documentaries. You can’t take the frequency of danger in a series to represent the actual risk of danger in a theorized world. The point of a TV show is to show us only crisis moments, because those make for good stories. Those stories are set in a background of a fictional world that has certain elements. TV shows are going to have a lot more action and danger and thrills and crisis than would happen in real life. That doesn’t mean that the background world has to be written as if everyone is always in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/87 "2019-06-04T15:55:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s something they never really explored; were the civilians strictly Starfleet dependents, or were there (as I would imagine) civilian scientists and academics on board to study aliens and ruins and celestial oddities? (I know Keiko O’Brien was a botanist, but they didn’t really explore that on TNG)… They did have civilian scientists, historians and the like aboard from time to time. > **[Janet Wallace](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Janet_Wallace)** > > Doctor Janet Wallace was a Federation scientist whose expertise was in endocrinology and cell structure. Janet and James Kirk were romantically involved in 2261, but the two "called it off" in favor of their respective careers. Later into the 2260s,... > **[Larry Marvick](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Larry_Marvick)** > > Lawrence "Larry" Marvick was a Federation engineer and one of the designers of the USS Enterprise. In 2268, Marvick worked with Dr. Miranda Jones on a project of adapting starship navigational instrumentation for Medusan operation. On stardate... > **[Galen (Professor)](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galen_(Professor))** > > Professor Galen was the most renowned Federation archaeologist of the 24th century. Among Galen's best works were his studies of the Kurlan civilization. Galen was Jean-Luc Picard's archaeology instructor at Starfleet Academy; he saw great potential... > **[Vash](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vash)** > > From the moment I met you, I knew you were going to be trouble.Jean-Luc Picard Vash was a Human archaeologist and former member of the Federation Archaeology Council in the 24th century and considered by many to be a profiteer. Vash's primary goal... > **[Kurak](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kurak)** > > Kurak was a female Klingon warp field specialist of the 24th century Klingon Empire. Living on Qo'noS, she was an expert in the field of subspace morphology. Due to the nature of Klingon culture, Klingon scientists were not highly regarded, and Kurak... ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/88 "2019-06-04T17:15:37Z")
TOS _Forever_… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/89 "2019-06-04T17:15:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is silly. TV shows are not fake documentaries. You can’t take the frequency of danger in a series to represent the actual risk of danger in a theorized world. The point of a TV show is to show us only crisis moments, because those make for good stories. Those stories are set in a background of a fictional world that has certain elements. > > TV shows are going to have a lot more action and danger and thrills and crisis than would happen in real life. That doesn’t mean that the background world has to be written as if everyone is always in danger. So you’re saying that\* Star Trek\* is not an accurate depiction of the \*Star Trek \*universe? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/90 "2019-06-04T17:27:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So you’re saying that\* Star Trek\* is not an accurate depiction of the \*Star Trek \*universe? Fiction is not a documentary of a non-existent reality. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/91 "2019-06-04T19:41:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > They did have civilian scientists, historians and the like aboard from time to time. > > [Janet Wallace | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Janet_Wallace) > [Larry Marvick | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lawrence_Marvick) > [Galen (Professor) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Richard_Galen) > [Vash | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vash) > [Kurak | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kurak) That’s not the same as what I’m talking about- those were all special guest type scientists- [like what we do today with our military ships.](https://www.nature.com/news/2011/110217/full/news.2011.103.html) I’m talking about civilians whose job is to be the head of the archaeology department aboard \*Enterprise \*. There’s no compelling reason that the scientists would need to be military, and in fact, I’d think it would make more sense to have civilian specialists doing the actual science from day-to-day. And there would be a slew of civilian occupations on board- teachers, for example. And maybe other jobs might be civilian as well. Pretty much anything that’s not directly related to flying the ship, fighting the ship, or supporting the ship’s basic functions might be handed by civilians, just like on a normal military base. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/92 "2019-06-05T01:25:21Z")
The -D. The -E as a close second. All the others are far, far, far behind. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/93 "2019-06-05T04:15:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > …I’m talking about civilians whose job is to be the head of the archaeology department aboard \*Enterprise \*… I can think of no civilians permanently assigned to any Starfleet vessel in any iteration of ST who headed a department. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/94 "2019-06-05T09:33:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Fiction is not a documentary of a non-existent reality. That’s a debatable point. But even if you claim that the risks faced by the Enterprise are not representative of Starfleet as a whole (why? Is it cursed?), you can’t rightfully claim that _Star Trek’s_ depiction of the Enterprise’s adventures are not an reliable depiction of the Enterprise’s adventures. And based solely on what we, the audience see, the Enterprise is an astonishingly dangerous place to leave. Personally, if I were there, I’d have taken my family elsewhere after the \*second \*time a godlike alien entity had to be talked out of playing badminton with the Enterprise as a shuttlecock. I wouldn’t wait for a third time. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/95 "2019-06-05T17:11:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I can think of no civilians permanently assigned to any Starfleet vessel in any iteration of ST who headed a department. That’s exactly what I’m saying is stupid about the way the Enterprise D was set up. If they were doing a significant amount of exploration and first contact, why in the world would they have actual uniformed, commissioned Starfleet people doing stuff like alien anthropology or botany or whatever? They’d almost certainly have a Starfleet crew running the ship, with an overall commander who’d be Starfleet, but they’d also probably have a civilian science head for the expeditition. Or they’d all be members of some kind of paramilitary UFP Exploratory Corps, kind of like how military pilots and scientists are detailed to NASA today, and not Starfleet. (which despite whatever hand waving explanations the writers and Roddenberry came up with, WAS a military organization) And they’d probably have explicit orders to cut and run at the first sign of trouble regardless. That’s my biggest problem with Trek, and in particular TNG; very little was thought out ahead of time, and everything was pretty much malleable to the needs of the particular episode’s narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/96 "2019-06-05T20:25:03Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Or if there was, say, a computer virus that had the risk of blowing the warp core. If the saucer section had separated, most of the people on the Yamato would be alive. You can’t make that assumption. The same computer virus was destroying a Romulan warbird by the activation of it’s self destruct mechanism. Two of the three main computer cores within the Enterprise-D were within the saucer section and they almost certainly would have been infected prior to separation. Even without the presence of a warp core within the saucer section, the virus would almost certainly find a way to destroy the saucer after a separation. Impulse engine overload, life support failure, inertial damper failure, program all the replicators to begin mass production of toxic elements - the list goes on. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/97 "2019-06-05T20:41:37Z")
> [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > Even without the presence of a warp core within the saucer section, the virus would almost certainly find a way to destroy the saucer after a separation. Impulse engine overload, life support failure, inertial damper failure, program all the replicators to begin mass production of toxic elements - the list goes on. Or simply activating the auto-destruct [explosive charges](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Auto-destruct#Methods) built into the ship. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/98 "2019-06-05T22:31:08Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > CV-6 Yep, USS Enterprise (CV-6) did the most. Great ship. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/99 "2019-06-08T17:45:38Z")
The saucer section makes a lot more sense if you assume that, like the shuttles, it actually has limited warp capabilities. Why would they put that on the shuttles but not the saucer section? It wouldn’t go as fast as proper nacelles, and would likely run on something akin to batteries with a limited amount of power, rather than a generator like the Warp drive. That’s how it works on the shuttles. If they have limited warp, the distance problem mostly goes away. They aren’t just sitting ducks, either. But the limited nature means landing on a nearby class-M planet and waiting for help may still be the better option at times. And it would also explain why it couldn’t easily separate at warp. In fact, I’m surprised that it says it can’t go to warp at all. That seems stupid. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814/100 "2019-06-08T17:55:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s a debatable point. > > But even if you claim that the risks faced by the Enterprise are not representative of Starfleet as a whole (why? Is it cursed?), you can’t rightfully claim that _Star Trek’s_ depiction of the Enterprise’s adventures are not an reliable depiction of the Enterprise’s adventures. And based solely on what we, the audience see, the Enterprise is an astonishingly dangerous place to leave. Personally, if I were there, I’d have taken my family elsewhere after the \*second \*time a godlike alien entity had to be talked out of playing badminton with the Enterprise as a shuttlecock. I wouldn’t wait for a third time. Yes, but nearly all fictional universes have people are more tolerant to danger than the real world. Even if it’s set in the “real world,” any drama will have its characters go through danger much more often. Fictional universes are crafted to serve the purpose of telling a story. There are some concessions to match our reality, to make it more relatable, but only enough to allow us to sustain a suspension of disbelief. I can’t think of any action show or drama that doesn’t do this. It seems odd to me to single out Star Trek. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-favorite-version-of-the-uss-enterprise/834814.md?page=6)