# Your friend is on trial for possessing kiddie porn. Do you break off the friendship? Why or why not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 13, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382 "2010-03-13T19:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/81 "2010-03-15T04:41:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s consensual. We’re not talking about consensual acts. That seems to contradict with what you said earlier… > [@](#): > > How is it NOT messed up? They derive sexual pleasure from the idea of hurting other people. If it’s just a misunderstanding and you simply didn’t specify earlier, that’s fine. But these quotes as they stand don’t match up. Many couples derive sexual pleasure from the idea (and indeed, the act) of hurting one another and it’s consensual all at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/82 "2010-03-15T04:41:57Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > In most cases I’d agree with you. If it was just a buddy I had who turned out to be a pedo, I’d likely, if not almost certainly phase him out. But according to the prompt, this guy has literally, at direct physical risk to himself, saved my life. That combined with his unwillingness to be alone with children tips it over for me. I might not ever look at him the same way again, but I couldn’t just drop him like that. > > And I’m not telling you how you’ve got to react, either. My “OK, cool” earlier wasn’t sarcastic. I’m perfectly satisfied with you not wanting to have any more contact with him, ever, as long as you weren’t advocating the persecution of thoughtcrime, which I discovered you weren’t after you clarified. Not only would I not support prosecution for the materials described in the OP, I would vociferously and angrily protest it if it happened. I’m a First Amendment absolutist. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/83 "2010-03-15T04:42:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t understand this at all. How could the idea of physically hurting somebody against their will be erotic? What does that say about how an individual views other people? Again, this goes back to the idea of rape role play. So you don’t think it’s messed up to consensually hurt your partner, but you DO think it’s messed up to consensually roleplay non-consensual sex? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/84 "2010-03-15T04:46:19Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > That seems to contradict with what you said earlier… > > If it’s just a misunderstanding and you simply didn’t specify earlier, that’s fine. But these quotes as they stand don’t match up. Many couples derive sexual pleasure from the idea (and indeed, the act) of hurting one another and it’s consensual all at the same time. It’s pretty clear if you read the thread that I’m talking about actual rape, and fantasies of rape. The definition of rape is not violence of physical pain, but absence of consent. The “hurt” I was referring to was the real harm caused by forcing non-consensual acts on a person (especially a child), not the _per se_ eroticization of giving or getting pain (which I still don’t comprehend, but don’t object to if everybody is a consenting adult). Fantasizing about doing things to people _aginst their will_ is what bothers me. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/85 "2010-03-15T04:48:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s pretty clear if you read the thread that I’m talking about actual rape, and fantasies of rape. The definition of rape is not violence of physical pain, but absence of consent. The “hurt” I was referring to was the real harm caused by forcing non-consensual acts on a person (especially a child), not the _per se_ eroticization of giving or getting pain (which I still don’t comprehend, but don’t object to if everybody is a consenting adult). Fantasizing about doing things to people _aginst their will_ is what bothers me. Rather than having a juggling match with you (we seem to be have two separate quote trains going) I’ll just let you see the post I made just before yours and let you respond to that. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/86 "2010-03-15T04:49:47Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Again, this goes back to the idea of rape role play. So you don’t think it’s messed up to consensually hurt your partner, but you DO think it’s messed up to consensually roleplay non-consensual sex? I think it’s messed up if you actually eroticize or fantasize about the non-consensual part. If an individual thinks the idea of really forcing someone to do something against their will – not role-playing it – is sexually exciting, then that individual is messed up, yes. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/87 "2010-03-15T04:51:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think it’s messed up if you actually eroticize or fantasize about the non-consensual part. If an individual thinks the idea of really forcing someone to do something against their will – not role-playing it – is sexually exciting, then that individual is messed up, yes. But when a couple engages in rape fantasies (role-play), doesn’t that indicate that they’re fantasizing about rape? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/88 "2010-03-15T04:59:51Z")
Not necessarily, no. It depends on whether or not the “rapist” partner truly eroticizes the idea of actual rape – where the non-consent is, in and of itself, what trips his trigger, not just the kink of being aggressive and “ravishing” the chick. Is this person turned on by internet rape porn? Does this person get sexually excited if he reads about actual rapes? Does the diea of a woman really crying and screaming, not pretending, and really being harmed turn the guy on? That’s what’s dangerous. At best, that shows indifference to the suffering of others, at worst it shows irrational hatred, and even pathological eroticization of causing suffering (actual suffering, not pretended). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/89 "2010-03-15T05:02:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t understand this at all. How could the idea of physically hurting somebody against their will be erotic? What does that say about how an individual views other people? It probably doesn’t say anything about them. Most of the people with this extremely common fantasy are perfectly ordinary people who value and cherish others and would be extremely upset at the idea of anyone actually suffering. Most women who share these fantasies are or will be perfectly ordinary wives and mothers and may never even share their fantasies with anyone. All will perform acts of caring, many will participate in charities, and some will dedicate their lives to making the lives of others better. Their fantasy life as absolutely no cross-over into their real lives. Just normal people with one very quirky sexual fantasy. I think the lesson for today might be “just because someone doesn’t think like me does not mean they are a monster.” ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/90 "2010-03-15T05:05:22Z")
Well, at the risk of ostracizing myself, as I said earlier, my current girl and I engage in rape play. Just restating that as an intro to my answers below. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Is this person turned on by internet rape porn? I watch porn, but I haven’t specifically searched for rape porn, so no. > [@](#): > > Does this person get sexually excited if he reads about actual rapes? No, I don’t. In fact, when I read about real rapes it invokes in me quite a bit of rage. > [@](#): > > Does the diea of a woman really crying and screaming, not pretending, and really being harmed turn the guy on? I don’t know. I mean, when I (consensually!) bite, slap, pinch, etc, we’re both getting off on it. But isn’t she “really being harmed”? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/91 "2010-03-15T05:06:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > It probably doesn’t say anything about them. The hell it doesn’t. Lack of empathy says a lot. The desire to inflict real suffering on innocents says even more. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/92 "2010-03-15T05:08:55Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Well, at the risk of ostracizing myself, as I said earlier, my current girl and I engage in rape play. Just restating that as an intro to my answers below. > I watch porn, but I haven’t specifically searched for rape porn, so no. > No, I don’t. In fact, when I read about real rapes it invokes in me quite a bit of rage. > > I don’t know. I mean, when I (consensually!) bite, slap, pinch, etc, we’re both getting off on it. But isn’t she “really being harmed”? No, she isn’t it. I suspect that if you thought she was really, really really being harmed, you wouldn’t be excited at all. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s the line. It;s not the form of the act, it’s the fantasy of truly doing emotional damage that’s dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/93 "2010-03-15T07:40:46Z")
Hell, I’ll go further than most, and say that I would continue to be friends with him even if he had actually done something provided that all of the following conditions were met: He was caught and convicted, he was punished, he complied with all of the elements of legal supervision (parole, registration as a sex offender, etc.), he admits what he did, he feels bad about it, it happened no more than once, he was under 22 when it happened, it has been at least 10 years since it happened, and all the other conditions of the OP are met. I believe in judging people as they are now. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe that all of those conditions were met (and of course things like his age and the length of time are not bright lines), but if he is really as good a friend as described, I think it would be possible. I will add the following caveats: I have no kids. If I did, I think I’d still be friends under the OP’s conditions, but very likely not if he’d actually done anything. I’m sure I’d agonize over it no matter what. And finally, I’m not sure this makes me a better person. My natural tendency is to react to people based on what I actually see, not on what else I know about them. It’s easy to make this into a virtue, but it could just as much be moral laziness. Along with this is the fact that I don’t tend to form extremely close friendships, so what I’m picturing as a continued friendship may be just an aquaintenceship to someone else. Oh, and regarding the legal aspect, I voted that he would be convicted and it would stand (assuming he was convicted of obscenity, not child pornography), but actually, I believe that most people in that situation would plead guilty and not appeal it only to get the whole ordeal over with. (A decision they would possibly regret, but nevertheless what they would do. Fighting a legal battle is very expensive and extremely stressful and this story would undoubtedly be in the press a great deal while it was ongoing in court.) ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/94 "2010-03-15T07:57:08Z")
I am used to responding to polls before reading the instructions - probably a bad idea. Therefore, I voted that you didn’t have my response. Your description is pretty much solid, but I was going under the assumption that lots of things that might be considered “kiddie porn” are actually not. For instance, there was a recent thread about a woman whose son got in trouble with a teacher at school for showing a picture of him in a jacuzzi (from the waist up) and when the kids asked if he was wearing a bathing suit, he said “no”, but he was home with his parents who had taken the photo! (I believe it was a snowy cold day and they fired up the jacuzzi and ran out into the snow to get into it. Hence, cold day but in water was show-and-tell worthy.) At any rate, there are many situations that go overboard, but in the OP’s story, I guess I would be a bit surprised and shocked, but if that person really had never, ever acted upon the urges, I guess there is really nothing wrong with it. I believe lots of people read books, and watch films, about subjects that might not ever be something they would want to do, but are fascinated nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/95 "2010-03-15T15:21:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I chose to cut off the friendship because I’d be too creeped out, so obviously I shan’t criticize you. But I have to ask: given that Al goes out of his way to avoid all children, including yours, why do you make that choice? Sorry, have been away from the Dope for a while. Anyway, there is just no way I would risk it even if this guy has his fantasies under total control. Just too much to lose there to even have this guy anywhere near my life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/96 "2010-03-15T15:30:23Z")
[Moderator Note]I realize that this subject is highly volatile, but please try not to debate in this thread, otherwise I might have to close the poll and move the this to Great Debates. The reason I would move it there is because, without the poll aspect, this topic belongs there anyway.[/Moderator Note] ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382/97 "2010-03-15T16:34:28Z")
I voted “remain friends” – if he has been able to control himself and be responsible all this time, that is very commendable! Plus, I would feel like a hypocrite if I bailed on him – I like “superheroine-in-peril” scenes, with sexy, scantily-clad heroines getting knocked out and captured, so I know what it is like having odd sexual fantasies. (And I haven’t even tried to avoid said superheroines, like he has with children… Ha!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-friend-is-on-trial-for-possessing-kiddie-porn-do-you-break-off-the-friendship-why-or-why-not/532382.md?page=4)