# Your ISP and you . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078 "2000-08-20T19:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mealypotaotes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/54ee81/32.png) [@mealypotaotes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mealypotaotes)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2000, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/1 "2000-08-20T19:52:40Z")
How much info on your personal internet use does your ISP store? For instance, does your ISP keep a list of every website you’ve ever visited? ---
**Author:** ![mealypotaotes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/54ee81/32.png) [@mealypotaotes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mealypotaotes)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2000, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/3 "2000-08-20T20:28:38Z")
Actually, I was kind of wondering if visits to adult-oriented websites are kept as the sort of ‘permament record’ your elementary school teachers threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2000, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/4 "2000-08-20T22:03:29Z")
Nah. Why would they do that? There’s no money in recording specifically adult sites. The ISP is interested in making a profit; judging the sites you visit ain’t the best way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2000, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/5 "2000-08-20T22:57:35Z")
They keep a lot of info but then DON’T read it. I have a few websites. & I get a log…I can see where everyone visits, how long they stay, where they are from when they visit my sites… ---
**Author:** ![tygre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@tygre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygre)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2000, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/6 "2000-08-20T23:57:45Z")
ISP admin here– We don’t track our dial-up people’s web usage at all. Email is only stored until they retrieve it from us unless they want to keep it on our site. We do keep track of when they log on/off and how long they’re on, but not what they’re doing while they’re on. Web hosting customers get a log that shows when and from where their sites were visited, what pages were accessed, what ads popped up, etc. We also track ad click-throughs. I’ve got no problem with xxx rated stuff. We don’t host any of it or block any of it, and I have a handout we can give to customers with kids on safe/family friendly internet usage. Mostly I recommend commercial blocking software instead of relying on the ISP to block it for you, and communicating w/ your kids. –tygre ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/7 "2000-08-21T14:45:01Z")
I don’t agree with you tygre. A Court Order can get plenty of info out of an ISP. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/8 "2000-08-21T14:49:05Z")
Handy, could you explain in further detail? Every ISP I’ve worked with, didn’t keep details on who visited what. That adds up to metric tons of info quickly. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2000, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/9 "2000-08-21T18:48:31Z")
Handy, I believeyou are wrong and tygre is right. That is just my educated guess. Now Tygre says he is he is an ISP admin which gives his post more weight. Can you explain where you get your info and what may support it? ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2000, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/10 "2000-08-22T09:59:33Z")
ISP networking engineer here - that is, tygre’s input is probably better than mine (I just move the bleeding bits, couldn’t care less what they’re used for). handy says: > [@](#): > > I don’t agree with you tygre. A Court Order can get plenty of info out of an ISP. It’s technically possible to trace a load of info about each user. But why bother ? - it’s not as if we don’t have enough to do already. Disk space is expensive - we log exactly what we need to log in order to print bills, which is, in the end, what being an ISP is about. If, however, a court order arrives, we can start logging a user pretty closely and tell what he’s doing in considerable detail. But this is of course a massive invasion of privacy, akin to phone-tapping, and it’s not done for the fun of it. S. Norman ---
**Author:** ![tygre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@tygre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygre)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2000, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/11 "2000-08-22T13:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > \*\* > > It’s technically possible to trace a load of info about each user. But why bother ? - it’s not as if we don’t have enough to do already. Disk space is expensive - we log exactly what we need to log in order to print bills, which is, in the end, what being an ISP is about. > > If, however, a court order arrives, we can start logging a user pretty closely and tell what he’s doing in considerable detail. But this is of course a massive invasion of privacy, akin to phone-tapping, and it’s not done for the fun of it. > > S. Norman > \*\* Exactly. I didn’t say it was impossible, just that we don’t routinely do it. We would of course cooperate fully with a court order if served, but we don’t log everyone’s info for the reasons Spiny Norman mentioned above. Oh, and I’m a she, fwiw 🙂 . –tygre ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2000, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/your-isp-and-you/30078/12 "2000-08-23T00:10:46Z")
Yes, of course it can be done. That is what “Carnivore” is about. The feds say “we look at everything and keep only what we are supposed to keep” and Civil Rights groups and other reasonable people say “HA! We know you and we have a better idea: you show the court order to the ISP and let the ISP give you the information on _that_ particular person and no other”. There is no question it _can_ be done. The question is why would the ISP gather information it has no use for. OTOH we may find out that information _does_ have some value (like for targeted advertising) and some ISPs would collect summaries like what type of web sites someone is visiting. (Why do I keep getting spam inviting me to XXXX sites? hmmm…)